N.J. Governor Wants to Merge Thomas Edison Into Rutgers

[Rhashad]

Great comments by all, so nice to have intelligent discussion.

I'm less worried as I'll be graduating soon, but to the folks who will be enrolled or considering enrollment, have a contingency plan. I've worked in organizations that had funding cut, disaster strikes quickly. Like a previous poster said, if leadership is weak the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

Based on "some" of the people I've come in contact with at TESC, it's a toss-up as to whether things will shape up. Seems to be an equal number of dedicated folks and not-so dedicated, umm . . people

[taylor]

Edit: Kind of dumb

[Lindagerr]

The reasons I picked TESC still stand. I could have gone to Rutgers, but that did not meet MY needs TESC did.

I don't want to take a few more classes, I live in NJ, but the closest Rurgers campus is a good hour away. I don't give a $hit about the Rutgers name(it hasn't done my husband any good on his resume). I have lived in NJ for more then 50 years and I have heard about TESC since the 70's I don't know where you were if you didn't.

Below is the latest e-mail to TESC students

Dear Linda,

I am contacting you today to explain why Thomas Edison State College opposes the proposal announced this week to merge our College into Rutgers, a plan which was not initiated by either institution.

We are opposed to this initiative for the following reasons:

Threatening an Important Mission:
Thomas Edison State College's distinctive mission can survive only in an autonomous, specialized institution. The College was created in 1972 because prominent educational leaders recommended, and state policy makers understood, that adult students could not be fully accommodated in the colleges and universities that were created to serve 18-22 year olds. This unique purpose was reinforced in the mid 1980s when, under the leadership of Governor Kean, specific funding was provided for Thomas Edison State College that enabled it to become a national leader in developing and providing flexible, high-quality, collegiate learning opportunities for self-directed adults through technology.

Denying Access:
Most of our alumni would not have been able to earn their degrees within the framework of Rutgers' current academic policy. Rutgers limits the number of credits that can be transferred from other institutions. Rutgers limits the number of credits that can be earned through testing and prior learning assessment. Rutgers limits the number of credits that can be earned from military and corporate training. Rutgers has very few programs tailored for adults and very limited experience in delivering online education for adult students. Rutgers operates on a traditional academic calendar (two semesters and summer sessions). Thomas Edison State College begins a new semester each month, enabling students to begin when they are ready and finish when they complete their degree requirements.

Reducing Affordability:
The current annual in-state tuition and fees at Rutgers total $11,874. At Thomas Edison State College, the current in-state comprehensive tuition and fees total $4,815. The current annual out-of-state tuition and fees at Rutgers total $20,456. At Thomas Edison State College, the current out-of-state comprehensive tuition and fees total $6,840. Thomas Edison State College is currently New Jersey's most affordable senior institution of higher education for New Jersey residents.

Cost to the State:
Thomas Edison State College receives the fewest state appropriation dollars of any senior public institution of higher education; yet, with more than 18,000 students, we are the state's third largest college or university. Our current state appropriation is only $5.3 million. The College is supported mainly through student tuition and fees, which account for approximately 80 percent of its revenues. Our tuition and fees are the lowest in the state among all senior public institutions.

Impact on the Economic Development of Trenton:
The rationale behind the proposed merger is that by combining Thomas Edison State College, the New Jersey State Library and the New Jersey State Museum into a Rutgers campus in Trenton, economic development would be stimulated in our state capital. First, no state funding is being provided to support this initiative. Second, the New Jersey State Library is already a well-managed affiliate of Thomas Edison State College. Third, if the proposal is approved, there would still be a college, a library and a museum in Trenton. Fourth, students that require a traditional classroom experience in Trenton already have access to The College of New Jersey, Rider University, and Mercer County Community College. Fifth, Thomas Edison State College is already involved in important economic development work in the city of Trenton. Finally, both Trenton Mayor Douglas Palmer and Mercer County Executive Brian Hughes have expressed opposition to this proposal and have said it is not in the best interests of the city and county.

We are aware that New Jersey is in the midst of the worst fiscal crisis since the Great Depression and understand the sacrifice that is required of us, but we do not believe the public interest is served by the enacting of this proposal. We firmly believe it would destroy the mission of our College, deny educational opportunities to thousands of adult students, increase the cost of education and in no way enhance the economic development of our region.

We will be asking for your support and assistance in preserving this institution's ability to serve the adult students for whom it was created and will continue providing you with more information on this issue in the coming weeks.

Sincerely,

Dr. George A. Pruitt
President
Thomas Edison State College


I am very close to my degree so this probably will not affect me, but I want this option to stay available for my childdren and other adults who are looking for a different way to earn their degree.

[taylor]

Linda, I see where you're coming from and I respect that. I have no idea if this would be good thing or a bad thing but I tend to lean towards the merge. I'm glad you're almost done so this won't affect you.

[skyfall123]

FYI, from the TESC Facebook....

This is to help answer questions we have received about the proposed merger of Thomas Edison State College into Rutgers.
Unfortunately, we do not have details about how such a merger would affect students and alumni at this time. The proposal to merge Thomas Edison State College into Rutgers is currently just a proposal... and one that we oppose. Thomas Edison State College was not involved in its development. If the proposal is approved, we would expect details to emerge that include a transition timeline and how academic protocols would affect students. We will continue to keep you informed about this proposal as we learn any new developments.

In the mean time, the College is advising students, at this time, to proceed as normal and keep working toward their degree completion with us. In addition, we are planning for our 38th Annual Commencement, which is scheduled for Oct. 9, 2010 at the War Memorial in Trenton, N.J.

Personal note to TESC from the Geezer - While the students are all hard at work completing their degrees, would you please figure out a way to record the receiving of transcripts and the subsequent updating of those transcripts to student evaluations, in less time than the current 2-3 months? It seems ridiculous to even have to make this request since every other college I have attended (including Excelsior) was able to complete this process in less than 2 weeks.

In the 1800's they used to be able to deliver a letter by Pony Express (horseback) from one end of the country to the other in about 1/4 of the time it currently takes TESC just to acknowledge electronically that a transcript sent to them has been received.

Maybe the solution is to deliver the TESC department paychecks in the same average time that it takes to update student transcripts. If this incentive was implemented, I would guess that the average time would go from 2 months to less than two weeks overnight.

[jacanyardie]

Well said Geezer....."it should not take that long"

[RUTurbo]

In the end I see both sides of the argument -

People against the merger - see TESC as an invaluable resource due to extremely it's extremely low tuition and flexible credit transfer requirements.

People for - The inherent value of the Rutgers brand, Rutgers is one of only 62 colleges belonging to the Association of American Universities. Rutgers tuition is $11,800 per year for NJ citizens, TESC is $5,800 - not a huge gap considering the difference in quality.

As mentioned 60% of students are military - being former military any increase in tuition will not affect those students, TA will cover their entire tuition. Rutgers DOES have experience with NTS. I doubt most military students are utilizing many CLEPs and DANTES, while on Active Duty in the Air Force, I knew about 20 people who sought degrees from TESC, almost all earned credits towards degrees via on base classes at our education center and online courses. Few if any earned credits via CLEP/DSST. As a taxpayer TESC is losing my money and not benefiting my state in anyway. TESC has zero endowment and relies on the State to maintain itself. Meanwhile Rutgers endowment is over $500 million dollars. At the end of the day NJ faces a $11.4 BILLION dollar budget deficit for fiscal year 2011. Cuts MUST be made, at the end of the day most TESC students are not NJ residents and for the state to pour over $5 million dollars a year to a school that's main focus is credit evaluation is not a good use of taxpayer dollars. For the few students who will be affected I sympathize greatly, however the persons affected will be minimal. Also future test-out degree seekers will still have Excelsior and Charter Oak. If I was going that route Excelsior would be my personal choice, they seem to have better customer service and a better rep overall on this and other internet forums. They also except the GRE for credits which in this poster's opinion is a HUGE bonus. If in fact this proposed mergers takes place, current TESC students and alums will not be affected whatsoever. Future students will benefit from Rutgers continual climb up in University rankings, and their proposed move into the BIG 10 athletic conference for the 2012 school year. I'm all for the merger - for those going after a BSLS or BALS I doubt you will see major changes - the most significant changes will probably in the more specific Majors. The biggest change will probably come in the form of a 30 credit residency requirement. Which we on-campus students must also abide. In the end it seems if the merger would combine UC and TESC a Rutgers degree could be had for around $15000, a steal! I know my Rutgers education is taking me places - after spending 10 years in the Air Force and doing almost zero college, I'll complete my RU degree in a total of 4 semesters. I'll be applying to law school in September and I'm confident I'll get into some great schools with some scholarship money. Again all the facts aren't sorted out yet so people on both sides shouldn't rush to conclusions. In the end I believe a merger will save the state money, and benefit future students who are in a similar position to myself who need more than a RA degree - but also a degree that has some prestige, as well as the opportunity to work with some well regarded faculty within academia.

[skyfall123]

RUTurbo Thanks again for another excellent post

As a taxpayer TESC is losing my money and not benefiting my state in anyway. TESC has zero endowment and relies on the State to maintain itself.

It is my understanding that 80% (approx 20M) of the annual TESC budget/operating costs are paid from student tuitions and the other 5M comes from state aid. Of course if TESC operated more efficiently, they wouldn't rely on any state aide.

[creationstory]

In the end I see both sides of the argument -

People against the merger - see TESC as an invaluable resource due to extremely it's extremely low tuition and flexible credit transfer requirements.

People for - The inherent value of the Rutgers brand, Rutgers is one of only 62 colleges belonging to the Association of American Universities. Rutgers tuition is $11,800 per year for NJ citizens, TESC is $5,800 - not a huge gap considering the difference in quality.

As mentioned 60% of students are military - being former military any increase in tuition will not affect those students, TA will cover their entire tuition. Rutgers DOES have experience with NTS. I doubt most military students are utilizing many CLEPs and DANTES, while on Active Duty in the Air Force, I knew about 20 people who sought degrees from TESC, almost all earned credits towards degrees via on base classes at our education center and online courses. Few if any earned credits via CLEP/DSST. As a taxpayer TESC is losing my money and not benefiting my state in anyway. TESC has zero endowment and relies on the State to maintain itself. Meanwhile Rutgers endowment is over $500 million dollars. At the end of the day NJ faces a $11.4 BILLION dollar budget deficit for fiscal year 2011. Cuts MUST be made, at the end of the day most TESC students are not NJ residents and for the state to pour over $5 million dollars a year to a school that's main focus is credit evaluation is not a good use of taxpayer dollars. For the few students who will be affected I sympathize greatly, however the persons affected will be minimal. Also future test-out degree seekers will still have Excelsior and Charter Oak. If I was going that route Excelsior would be my personal choice, they seem to have better customer service and a better rep overall on this and other internet forums. They also except the GRE for credits which in this poster's opinion is a HUGE bonus. If in fact this proposed mergers takes place, current TESC students and alums will not be affected whatsoever. Future students will benefit from Rutgers continual climb up in University rankings, and their proposed move into the BIG 10 athletic conference for the 2012 school year. I'm all for the merger - for those going after a BSLS or BALS I doubt you will see major changes - the most significant changes will probably in the more specific Majors. The biggest change will probably come in the form of a 30 credit residency requirement. Which we on-campus students must also abide. In the end it seems if the merger would combine UC and TESC a Rutgers degree could be had for around $15000, a steal! I know my Rutgers education is taking me places - after spending 10 years in the Air Force and doing almost zero college, I'll complete my RU degree in a total of 4 semesters. I'll be applying to law school in September and I'm confident I'll get into some great schools with some scholarship money. Again all the facts aren't sorted out yet so people on both sides shouldn't rush to conclusions. In the end I believe a merger will save the state money, and benefit future students who are in a similar position to myself who need more than a RA degree - but also a degree that has some prestige, as well as the opportunity to work with some well regarded faculty within academia.

i totally disagree.. from what i've seen most people in the AF are content on getting their credits via the CCAF .. if they were ambitious enough to take courses they would CLEP courses.

Sad to say most active duty enlisted military did not have the initial desire to go to college in the first place. if they did there is a ton of options including service academies, rotc, military reserves.. etc!


i'm 150% sure that Rutgers is in the Big EAST! Why would they go to the BIG TEN? The Big East is a far better conference...

You do seem to forget that Rutgers is another school system.. like SUNY, Georgia.. UC's.. Cal States.. LSU.. etc.. They all have good and bad portions.. Rutgers isn't climbing up the charts as you suggest.. All schools are improving nationwide! Rutgers is simply keeping pace...


So with all your CCAF credits.. you are still taking an additional 2 years to graduate (4 semesters).. apparently this non traditional student route is not for you! Most people who do the NTS route do not take more than 3 years...


You speak about Rutgers having all this great academia.. but the vast majority of the times courses are taught by Teaching Assistants or Graduate Assistants! So much is subjective in terms of grades...and in terms of one professor to another... An A grade with one professor in Course Dinosaur.. can be a C grade with another professor in Course Dinosaur. Standardized Testings is universal.. a C is a C is a C...no matter where you take it!

The GRE isn't for everyone... Thomas Edison has the benefit of using your basic training credits as well as Federal Emergency Management Courses at a far cheaper rate....than Excelsior..

Good luck in law school. Getting a scholarship to it is tough... at least have your LSAT scores before making some kind of boasts like that. I know a number of 4.0 students at schools like Fordham and Georgetown who didn't get scholarships b/c of low or average lsat scores. Most likely..you'll be taking out a lot of loans...

"One student, graduated from Michigan State University's law school and lives Mich., owes $150,000 in private and government-backed student loans. The monthly payment of $660, takes a quarter of the take-home pay, is scheduled to jump to $800 in a year, leaving the student with stark financial choices. " Bankruptcy Won't Discharge $350,000 of Student Loan Debt for Law Graduate - Above the Law - A Legal Tabloid - News, Gossip, and Colorful Commentary on Law Firms and the Legal Profession

You can say you have military .. but you're competing against student who are military who went to schools like Columbia...
don't believe me...

With New G.I. Bill, More March From Battlefield to College - NYTimes.com

[RUTurbo]

creationstory - I'd like to ask if you have any empirical data to suggest your claims or whether you are just using your personal feelings on the matter to bash Rutgers as well as myself?? This discussion is about Gov. Christie's desire to merge RUTGERS NEW BRUNSWICK - PISCATAWAY and TESC. I am totally aware that Rutgers is a system school - I am a full-time student there! Camden and Newark are separate but equal both have Law Schools, Newark has a nursing school and their alums are treated no different than a New Brunswick school. Rutgers has accommodated me as a NTS accepting 12 CCAF credits (although my situation is different due to my AFSC, - Linguist - Urdu, Farsi), and 48 via CLEP/DSST.

I do not know whether or not you have taken courses at RU - however if you have than are experiences are vastly different. In my first semester I took 2 courses taught and graded by TA's - both were lower level requirements taught in lecture halls. Every other single class I have taken has had less than 25 students and the vast majority having 18 or less.

As for your statement to Rutgers is just keeping pace - if this data is just keeping pace what is everyone else doing??

Eleven of Rutgers' graduate departments are ranked by the National Research Council in the top 25 among all universities: Philosophy (2nd), Geology Ranked 9th Nationally based on NSF funding 9th ,Geography (13th), Statistics (17th), English (17th), Mathematics (19th), Art History (20th), Physics (20th), History (20th) Comparative Literature (22nd), French (22nd), and Materials Science Engineering (25th).

According to U.S. News & World Report, in the top 25 among all universities: Food Science (2nd), Library Science (6th), Drama/Theater (12th), Mathematics (16th), English (18th), History (19th, with the subspecialty of African-American History ranked 4th and Women’s History ranked 1st), Applied Mathematics (21st) and Physics (24th).

The Philosophy Department ranked first in 2002–04 tied with New York University and Princeton University, and second in 2004–06 (NYU was first, Princeton 3rd, Oxford 4th) in the Philosophical Gourmet's biennial report on Philosophy programs in the English-speaking world.

In 2003, the Wall Street Journal conducted a study of the undergraduate institutions that most frequently feed students placements at elite professional and graduate programs, such as Yale and Harvard; Rutgers was ranked 20th in the rankings they compiled for public university's.

Even Forbes Magazine weighed has an opinion on RU, Forbes ranked Rutgers as being the 20th best public university in the United States for "getting rich," as judged by its students' median salaries upon graduation.

Even Rutgers - Newark gets to join in the fun! According to U.S. News & World Report, in the top 25 among all universities: The Division of Global Affairs (DGA) Ph.D. program at Rutgers University-Newark was ranked fifth in the nation in the Benchmarking Academic Excellence survey of Top Universities in Social and Behavioral Sciences Disciplines in the combined category of International Affairs and Development for 2006 - 2007.

As to me and law school - my LSAC GPA is 4.0 a LSAC 4.0 is the same as any other 4.0 whether it's from Harvard or TESC - If you went to an extremely prestigious UG such as HYP (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) you may get a slight bump when ADCOM's review your package in the end law schools care about numbers because they must report them to LSAC and those numbers have a significant factor in their rankings. LSAT is another beast, I'm currently in a PowerScore class - I have taken over 10 real LSAT's as part of the course and I'm averaging a 174 - If I bomb it and get a 158 I'll still be sitting pretty at RU -Newark or Camden for free because they are Yellow Ribbon participants. As a member of the NJ Air Guard RU has not asked me for a single penny - I register for courses buy my books and show up - it's great! So I still have 36 months of Post-9/11 GI bill eligibility remaining.

I feel for the Michigan State grad who cant find a job - I feel for their situation -however that's the current state of the legal market in this economy. Law Schools are graduating approximately 20,000 more students then is necessary, over-saturating the market. The fact of the matter is if you graduate at or below median at a school that is not in the prestigious T-14 you will not have an easy time finding work. Graduating a Tier 3 school such as Michigan State in a region dominated by several T-14 schools (Michigan, UChicago, Northwestern) only compounds to the problem.

Anyway enough thread hijacking - this is about a TESC RU - New Brunswick merger. Because of the facts I have stated above and in previous posts I believe it will be a good thing for TESC and NJ residents!