Med school - anyone interested? Well...

[Stonybeach]

I was surprised to see an ophthalmologist hire optometrists for surgical first assistance and pre- and post-care.

[bjcheung77]

Anyways, my offer is up! No, I'm not like this guy, but he's 53 and grad Med School when he was 51, after he decided to deviate from being a Mechanic... https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical...r-AA1qBYmQ

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Here's the info on how he went from mechanic to medicine, and the institutions he attended to get there... https://www.npr.org/2022/10/05/112666133...-physician

[Stonybeach]

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[davewill]

Your concern is duly noted.

[Duneranger]

Great article. Shows that there are many reasons that people seek degrees. Not everyone is looking for a specific career; often it's for the love of learning. If a person has the resources and passion to pursue an education, there's no reason they shouldn't. I've never seen anyone ask someone who golfs for a hobby what the ROI is on their equipment, classes, and club memberships, or tell them they are stupid for putting energy into something that is challenging and sometimes difficult, and also won't earn them money.

In this case, the student wanted to learn medicine primarily because he was interested in it. Secondarily, the knowledge he gained is something that he can apply to problems that require an understanding of anatomy and medicine, but do not require a license to practice medicine—but that really only seems to be mentioned as a side benefit, not as the reason that he sought the degree. I also love how this has inspired him to looking to developing a scholarship fund for other medical students—he may not going to practice medicine himself, but he would be helping others to do so. Lovely all around.

The problem with this thinking is that there are a very limited number of seats in med school programs in the US. There are not enough openings for everyone who wants to actually be a doctor. Are there overseas schools who will happily accept the money? Sure. Med school isn't the same as getting an MBA for fun. It's rigorous. There's also the argument that someone who actually wants to become a doctor lost their chance because this guy had the cash for a seat even though he will not become a doctor which is unfortunate as the world needs more doctors.

You are welcome to think that way, but it is not an objective truth. He did not pursue a medical degree in the US, and the medical school that admitted him likely knew that he was not going to become a practicing medical doctor, but saw other advantages to admitting him. I don't think it's likely that they rejected someone who might actually become a medical doctor in order to accept him. But if they did, it might have been because they didn't I think those rejected candidates would have been good medical doctors. And they may have felt that his knowledge of chemistry and other sciences would be a boon to other students in his cohort, improving their knowledge and ability to practice medicine upon graduation.

All this is beside the point that there are plenty of people who go to med school who do not go on to practice medicine, in the sense that they are not caring for patients. Going to med school in order to become a research MD is a real thing. Additionally, many people leave medical practice in order to get jobs in the business sector as consultants--I've worked with quite a few of them. It actually sounds like this individual is doing something along that vein.

If you think that everyone with a medical degree should be required to use that degree only to offer direct care for patients, then that is really a whole other discussion. I don't think it's a defensible viewpoint. There is plenty of good that people can do with medical degrees that does not involve patient care, and that only a medical degree will properly qualify them to do.

Honestly, I'm not sure why there is so much hate for getting degrees they don't have a direct relationship to a person's occupation on the "how to get a degree that might not have a direct relationship to your occupation" board.

This is actually not common. Plenty of MDs do research and there are quite a few MD/PhDs (it's a grant base program) but almost all do research AND practice medicine.  For those who JUST want to research, a PhD suffices easily. In 15 years I have never met a MD who didn't do substantial patient care at least at some point.

[Bingbong]

Yeah, I am thinking of it... for the last few years now actually... Here's an interesting read, the oldest Med School graduate (not in the US, but elsewhere).  It's weird why he went to the PI to get a medical degree, I guess it's like some people going to the Caribbean for theirs...

Link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/this-7...r-AA1qbkvM

Decent chance you don't match into a US residency and then you are screwed. Foreign medical grads get the bottom of the barrel residencies if they even match at all. Why spend your remaining days being stressed 24/7 and having to deal with the risk of lawsuits and disgruntled patients all day long after burning 10+ years of your life studying.  It's not weird he went to the PI, (it's cheap, with lower standards for admission) this guy would have no chance at a US med school and a Carribean school would take his cash and flunk him out after they collected his 100k a year check. They are notorious for this.  Accepting tons of people then weeding them out after they take their money.

Going into medicine or healthcare isn't just degree hacking a few more letters at the end of your name,  you are dealing with people's lives and all the weight that comes with that daily. 

Don't be like this guy if you value your sanity. Cool he achieved a goal, let's revisit his attitude a few years into practice.

I say this as a medical provider who has done this every day for 15 years. I get people want to check things off in life but this IMO is a weird way to do it.

Hello All, 
Long time lurker, but had to register to comment on this. I know several people who went to Medical School in the Caribbean and matched into competitive programs in the US. A friend of a friend didn't match into a Derm program, so she worked as an assistant physician (this is different from physician assistant)  under a doctor to get experience, applied again, and got accepted.

I have two associates currently enrolled in an online accredited Caribbean medical school where they will spend the first couple of years online, so they are studying from home. 

I think it's unfair to assume that all Caribbean medical schools are predatory. Maybe it's biased but friends who went to a Caribbean schools say that most horror students you hear about students being dismissed is because they didn't do well in the program. They go to a Caribbean school thinking it will be easy, but then they realize it isn't. All the accredited schools need to maintain a standard to stay accredited, just like US medical schools. 

I personally have no problem with anyone pursing a goal. If the guy in the OP doesn't end up pursing medicine, so what?

[Duneranger]

Yeah, I am thinking of it... for the last few years now actually... Here's an interesting read, the oldest Med School graduate (not in the US, but elsewhere).  It's weird why he went to the PI to get a medical degree, I guess it's like some people going to the Caribbean for theirs...

Link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/this-7...r-AA1qbkvM

Decent chance you don't match into a US residency and then you are screwed. Foreign medical grads get the bottom of the barrel residencies if they even match at all. Why spend your remaining days being stressed 24/7 and having to deal with the risk of lawsuits and disgruntled patients all day long after burning 10+ years of your life studying.  It's not weird he went to the PI, (it's cheap, with lower standards for admission) this guy would have no chance at a US med school and a Carribean school would take his cash and flunk him out after they collected his 100k a year check. They are notorious for this.  Accepting tons of people then weeding them out after they take their money.

Going into medicine or healthcare isn't just degree hacking a few more letters at the end of your name,  you are dealing with people's lives and all the weight that comes with that daily. 

Don't be like this guy if you value your sanity. Cool he achieved a goal, let's revisit his attitude a few years into practice.

I say this as a medical provider who has done this every day for 15 years. I get people want to check things off in life but this IMO is a weird way to do it.

Hello All, 
Long time lurker, but had to register to comment on this. I know several people who went to Medical School in the Caribbean and matched into competitive programs in the US. A friend of a friend didn't match into a Derm program, so she worked as an assistant physician (this is different from physician assistant)  under a doctor to get experience, applied again, and got accepted.

I have two associates currently enrolled in an online accredited Caribbean medical school where they will spend the first couple of years online, so they are studying from home. 

I think it's unfair to assume that all Caribbean medical schools are predatory. Maybe it's biased but friends who went to a Caribbean schools say that most horror students you hear about students being dismissed is because they didn't do well in the program. They go to a Caribbean school thinking it will be easy, but then they realize it isn't. All the accredited schools need to maintain a standard to stay accredited, just like US medical schools. 

I personally have no problem with anyone pursing a goal. If the guy in the OP doesn't end up pursing medicine, so what?

Anecdotes anecdotes, anecdotes. Go look up attrition rates, match rates, specialty match rates and yearly costs then get back to me. Most of the schools have INSANELY large classes at first because they want to cut people after taking their money. This isn’t a novel or new thing. It’s also absolutely not some sort of conspiracy. They prey on students who couldn’t get into US MD/DO programs because no one would attend if they had a US option.

Of course med school isn’t easy but they make it a grueling slog fest in the beginning for an insidious reason. Approximately 20-% don’t match on average and those that do usually get dumped into FM. 

You want to role the dice with hundreds of thousands of dollars, go for it. I would never advocate for Caribbean med schools unless it’s a last resort. If someone wants to go to med school for 4 years just for “fun”, I’d question their sanity.

[Bingbong]

Yeah, I am thinking of it... for the last few years now actually... Here's an interesting read, the oldest Med School graduate (not in the US, but elsewhere).  It's weird why he went to the PI to get a medical degree, I guess it's like some people going to the Caribbean for theirs...

Link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/this-7...r-AA1qbkvM

Decent chance you don't match into a US residency and then you are screwed. Foreign medical grads get the bottom of the barrel residencies if they even match at all. Why spend your remaining days being stressed 24/7 and having to deal with the risk of lawsuits and disgruntled patients all day long after burning 10+ years of your life studying.  It's not weird he went to the PI, (it's cheap, with lower standards for admission) this guy would have no chance at a US med school and a Carribean school would take his cash and flunk him out after they collected his 100k a year check. They are notorious for this.  Accepting tons of people then weeding them out after they take their money.

Going into medicine or healthcare isn't just degree hacking a few more letters at the end of your name,  you are dealing with people's lives and all the weight that comes with that daily. 

Don't be like this guy if you value your sanity. Cool he achieved a goal, let's revisit his attitude a few years into practice.

I say this as a medical provider who has done this every day for 15 years. I get people want to check things off in life but this IMO is a weird way to do it.

Hello All, 
Long time lurker, but had to register to comment on this. I know several people who went to Medical School in the Caribbean and matched into competitive programs in the US. A friend of a friend didn't match into a Derm program, so she worked as an assistant physician (this is different from physician assistant)  under a doctor to get experience, applied again, and got accepted.

I have two associates currently enrolled in an online accredited Caribbean medical school where they will spend the first couple of years online, so they are studying from home. 

I think it's unfair to assume that all Caribbean medical schools are predatory. Maybe it's biased but friends who went to a Caribbean schools say that most horror students you hear about students being dismissed is because they didn't do well in the program. They go to a Caribbean school thinking it will be easy, but then they realize it isn't. All the accredited schools need to maintain a standard to stay accredited, just like US medical schools. 

I personally have no problem with anyone pursing a goal. If the guy in the OP doesn't end up pursing medicine, so what?

Anecdotes anecdotes, anecdotes. Go look up attrition rates, match rates, specialty match rates and yearly costs then get back to me. Most of the schools have INSANELY large classes at first because they want to cut people after taking their money. This isn’t a novel or new thing. It’s also absolutely not some sort of conspiracy. They prey on students who couldn’t get into US MD/DO programs because no one would attend if they had a US option.

Of course med school isn’t easy but they make it a grueling slog fest in the beginning for an insidious reason. Approximately 20-% don’t match on average and those that do usually get dumped into FM. 

You want to role the dice with hundreds of thousands of dollars, go for it. I would never advocate for Caribbean med schools unless it’s a last resort. If someone wants to go to med school for 4 years just for “fun”, I’d question their sanity.

Probably earning a lot more than someone who didn't want to take the risk and pursue their dream, because they sat on the internet and believed every horror story they read about Caribbean medical schools. 

 I appreciate your opinion, but i am just relaying what actual medical students, who went to Medical School in the Caribbean experienced. 
Also, I am not going to police anyone's money. If someone whats to take the risk, and can afford to do so, it's not my place to convince them to do otherwise. *Shrug* Also, let us not act like it doesn't cost a pretty penny to apply to match programs in the US.
There are many competent doctors practicing in the US who attended medical school in the Caribbean, and until there are laws in place that state that no graduate outside of the US is allowed to apply to match, everyone pretty much has a chance, and every program is fair game.

[GameSlinger]

As a late life learner who was Pre-Med prior to going into management, I will throw my thoughts out there as well. I was in my low 40s when I decided to actually go to school and complete a degree. I had a few missteps a decade previously that soured my desire to get a degree (University of Phoenix lost me my GI Bill). After deciding I would need to get a degree to really move forward with my career, I started looking around at all the options available to me.

I have spent 20 years driving long haul semis but had a background in electronics from the military. With those 20 years in a truck taking a toll on my health, I knew that it would not be viable for another 20 years and the VA agreed. I was able to get signed up for the Vocational Rehabilitation program through the VA in order to get a degree that would allow me to change careers due to health concerns.

It was during the interview process for the program that they ask what you want to do that things took a turn I did not expect. I had researched the program prior to going in and I had found a fellow Vet who talked about shooting for the moon during your first interview with them. He mentioned that most case workers will say things are not possible, but really it means that they need to get approval from their superiors and most don't want to deal with it. The other Vet had been approved for Law School and now focuses on helping Vets.

Because I did not have a real focus on what I wanted to do, I fell back on things I was interested in when I was younger. The 3 options I presented during the interview was starting a business, becoming a lawyer, and becoming a doctor. All 3 interested me and I would have been happy with any of the 3 or something related to them such as becoming a nurse of physicians assistant. The case worker looked over all the information, including my skills tests results and career analysis results and stated "businesses have too high of a failure rate so we typically do not encourage that, the law field is not really growing that much right now, but the demand for doctors is really strong, we can do that." The VA approved me to attend medical school with them paying the tuition.

I was a bit shocked to say the least because they didn't even hesitate. This then meant I needed to figure out how to make that work which is how I ended up at Excelsior working towards a degree in biology, and using those credits as electives in my AAS in Electronics. I also took a few "transfer" courses at my my local community college and got an AAS in Business Administration and Management. I was on my way to getting to be a Dr and I was 45 already. Had things continued to progress that way, I would have been applying for medical school summer of 2024 with plans to enter Med School fall of 2025 at the age of 48.

As part of the VA program, I applied randomly to a few roles while I was working through the program, and I was offered a role I was no where near qualified for. Having never been in management or really a real leadership role, I was offered a position as a Site Leader Operations Manager where I led a team of 12 managers overseeing 400 production employees. With this new role, I had to reconsider my educational path and the financial spreadsheets I had created to determine breakeven points. My breakeven point going from trucking to Dr was approximately 65 years old so I had decided to go for it even though I did not expect to really earn any higher lifetime income. With me now being in a management role, my new breakeven point was in my low 70s which meant I would most likely be losing a lot of money going the Dr route. This is why I am no longer on that path, but if I did not have to consider my family obligations, I might of still gone for it.

I believe everyone needs to make their own determinations on what works for them and how they will achieve those goals, but never underestimate the drive of someone who just wants to do things to prove they can. There are several forum members here that I believe fit into that role. Those people will prosper, but it might not be the path that helps them prosper, its the drive.

[Stonybeach]

After being accepted into a Caribbean medical school, an Army buddy talked me out of it, and I went the nurse practitioner route. Sadly, I have lost two friends to suicide who graduated from Caribbean medical school and Mexican Medical School and never obtained a medical residency. They owed a lot of money and viewed themselves as a failure. It breaks my heart.

Look, I get it; you want to be a physician, and no US or Canadian medical school will accept you, so you go foreign. I'm simply encouraging anyone exploring this pathway to examine all their options and have a backup plan, up to and including being content as a foreign physician in the country where you obtained your MD. I say this because it says a lot about the medical school if their host country won't allow their graduates to practice in that country!

There are so many options now in the US that may appeal to someone who can't get accepted into an MD or DO school. Podiatry, Dentistry, Optometry, Pharmacy, Naturopathic, Physician Assistant, Nursing, Nurse Practitioner, Nurse Anesthetist, Anesthesiology Assistant, Chiropractic, Paramedic, Rad Tech, Physiologist, Psychologist, Mental Health Counselor, and other allied health professions.

Note: Listing does not imply any order of preference or importance. They are all vital! I also mentioned Canadian schools with US schools because there appear to be a lot of US States that accept Canadian medical and nursing credentials with much less scrutiny than other foreign countries. Not sure if Canada reciprocates?