Liberal Arts degrees

[ryoder]

I keep nodding when I read burbuja's posts. The degree is only a part of the bigger picture. You have to get your foot in the door as early as possible and get some business experience. My wife got a job paying 8 dollars an hour as a senior in her finance undergrad at a local company. She is now a manager there with a bunch of direct reports and supervisors and her salary is great. That 7 dollar an hour job is what started her career and her business degree made her qualified to make 7 dollars an hour! Think about that for a minute!

Ok so you have a business degree but never worked in business. What is so bad about retail? Go in there and be professional, learn some HR and operations management and become store manager within a year. Then move to a higher end store and make more money. Business is business. If you don't have a marketable trade skill then get one or get experience.

I don't feel sorry for people who don't plan. This is the real world. Not school.

With that, go have a beer and enjoy the weekend. Watch out for yourself because nobody else but your mom will

[jmed]

All the people claiming they never see a job posting with "Liberal Arts degree required" -- there are plenty of jobs that state "Bachelors degree required". Any field. So, bam, you just qualified for a bunch more jobs by having a degree.

Is it better to get an engineering degree? A medical degree? Duh. Insightful.

A large portion of the business world has undergrad in liberal arts majors (which include things like poli sci, history, English, communications). A liberal arts major is no less rigorous than being a poli sci major.

Make some friends & connections in the business world and flip through LinkedIn sometime. You folks acting like Liberal Arts degrees are worthless have no clue what you're talking about.

That said, ryoder and burbuja are obviously right when they point out that you need more than just a piece of paper to get a job. That's always the case, including for mathematicians and engineers and financial analysts and actuaries and nurses.

And it is also the case that a retail job can easily become a corporate job. Seen it happy at least twice in less than two years per person. By people with "worthless" liberal arts degrees.

(And I'm not being defensive, as I don't have a liberal arts degree. I'm like Brother #1, tech work and certs and lots of money.)

[MA2]

All the people claiming they never see a job posting with "Liberal Arts degree required" -- there are plenty of jobs that state "Bachelors degree required". Any field. So, bam, you just qualified for a bunch more jobs by having a degree.

Yes, and having a degree in something more substantial would satisfy the degree requirement as well. Duh.

[ryoder]

One thing I keep seeing happening over and over is more people want an MBA. These people are in all fields but realize 15 years into the career that executive management positions require sound business knowledge.

The MBA I am working on is a lot easier to complete since I already acquired the knowledge in the BSBA so now its just a matter of applying it and doing some critical thinking and writing.

So if you want a "generic" degree that has long-term value, strongly consider a BSBA. Schools in the US put a hefty amount of liberal arts education in any professional degree anyway so you are not missing out on history, humanities, math, science by doing a professional degree.

Talk to someone from India about their undergrad and they will tell you it was wholly technical. They don't study any liberal arts at all in their engineering or business degree programs and they finish them in 3 years instead of four. So my point is that a BSBA or other professional degree has plenty of liberal arts exposure built-in if its a US degree.

Business draws heavily on math, psychology, law and communications but puts those concepts into the context of an organizational setting such as a private company or a public government agency.

[MA2]

Talk to someone from India about their undergrad and they will tell you it was wholly technical. They don't study any liberal arts at all in their engineering or business degree programs and they finish them in 3 years instead of four. So my point is that a BSBA or other professional degree has plenty of liberal arts exposure built-in if its a US degree.

Exactly. Why waste time learning something that will be of no use to you. There's plenty of science, math, etc in the first 2 years of school.

I'm doing a double major in accounting and finance... but I had to take DSST astronomy. I needed a science requirement, like everyone else. I have no use for that knowledge. It's not that astronomy is useless. Having a good base of knowledge, a little bit of everything for the first two years is a good start, but beyond that I would want to learn something more concrete.

You learn plenty of history, economics, math and so on the first two years to make you a "well rounded individual," I don't need to do that for four years to prove my "critical thinking."

We're already far behind India, China, Japan... etc, on education, why widen the gap?

[TheCommuter]

Although this article was written last year, anyone who is interested can click on the link below to read the story of the college student who amassed a whopping $97,000 in student loan debt while attending NYU for four years. She majored in religious and women’s studies, and her earning potential is not too good.

Another Debt Crisis Is Brewing, This One in Student Loans - NYTimes.com

[Shemrat]

I needed a science requirement, like everyone else. I have no use for that knowledge. It's not that astronomy is useless. Having a good base of knowledge, a little bit of everything for the first two years is a good start, but beyond that I would want to learn something more concrete.

I understand what you mean about "learning something more concrete," or, in other words, obtaining a specialty to market yourself... but I don't quite see eye-to-eye with your argument against the general education that fills the gaps. You can fulfill those "useless" requirements with subjects that interest you or maybe subjects that don't interest you but which will ultimately improve yourself in some way, shape, or form. At the very least you will be more proficient at a game of Jeopardy.

I would rather make lemonade out of my lemons than deem them as "useless." I like to find the usefullness out of all of my educational and occupational exploits and assets resulting from the energy that I had spent on obtaining them... even if it means recalling some seemingly unimportant bit of trivia from the Astronomy exam. In all honestly, the education that I have received from my Biology course, Public Speaking, the General Anthropology DSST, and everything else - every little bit - has popped up from time to time to be proven useful. "If I combine this material and this material this will happen... learned that in Bio!" Education is life-long and for me, is not restricted solely to my major.

[burbuja0512]

I understand what you mean about "learning something more concrete," or, in other words, obtaining a specialty to market yourself... but I don't quite see eye-to-eye with your argument against the general education that fills the gaps. You can fulfill those "useless" requirements with subjects that interest you or maybe subjects that don't interest you but which will ultimately improve yourself in some way, shape, or form. At the very least you will be more proficient at a game of Jeopardy.

I would rather make lemonade out of my lemons than deem them as "useless." I like to find the usefullness out of all of my educational and occupational exploits and assets resulting from the energy that I had spent on obtaining them... even if it means recalling some seemingly unimportant bit of trivia from the Astronomy exam. In all honestly, the education that I have received from my Biology course, Public Speaking, the General Anthropology DSST, and everything else - every little bit - has popped up from time to time to be proven useful. "If I combine this material and this material this will happen... learned that in Bio!" Education is life-long and for me, is not restricted solely to my major.

In spite of my earlier comments, I do want to stress that I DO find the liberal arts degrees useful. So yes I agree with MA2 in the sense that a concrete degree is probably a bit more helpful in an initial career hunt, not everyone is cut out to get a technical degree. Lol... I know I would fail miserably

So.. Liberal Arts degrees are great and can enrich your life not to mention enhance job possibilities, AS LONG AS the degree holder has some other career/life experience that they bring to the table, OR they're willing to start at the very bottom and work their way up. While they may get lucky and find a great job right away, it is harder when you don't have a set skill and are ready to work.

[Shemrat]

So.. Liberal Arts degrees are great and can enrich your life not to mention enhance job possibilities, AS LONG AS the degree holder has some other career/life experience that they bring to the table, OR they're willing to start at the very bottom and work their way up. While they may get lucky and find a great job right away, it is harder when you don't have a set skill and are ready to work.

BANG! You hit the nail right on the head!

My comment was simply defending the value of the diverse requirements of an undergrad degree itself which expands the breadth of study beyond the area of focus. The 3-year Indian model that was mentioned earlier is regarded as a vocational training/certification-based endeavor here in the U.S. and it is my personal belief that the difference between the apprenticeship/vocational education/certification/etc. and the undergrad degree is appropriate. The bachelor's degree, in addition to expressing a particular skill-set or area of study, also indicates that the recipient is capable of sitting their butt down in a chair and learning a vast array of topics regardless of the level of personal interest derived from taking them. A degree shows employers that the individual is capable of working through a system to its finality.

This is in no way intending to deviate from the value of certifications and technical training as they, too, present a skill-set and dedication all within their own realm. It is up to the individual which path is in accordance to their goals. If one wishes to be a dental hygienist, a plumber, or any of a multitude of other professions within that technical realm, then perhaps Underwater Basket Weaving (played to death ) is better off missing from the agenda.

But yes, I certainly believe one may be more marketable with an area of focus in addition to the series of underwater basket weaving courses (no pun intended) than without. A Liberal Arts degree is perfectly admirable in my eyes, but I do recognize an inherent distinction between the potential values placed on degrees.

The soapbox broke. Can I borrow yours?

[MA2]

Having a good base of knowledge, a little bit of everything for the first two years is a good start, but beyond that I would want to learn something more concrete.

I understand what you mean about "learning something more concrete," or, in other words, obtaining a specialty to market yourself... but I don't quite see eye-to-eye with your argument against the general education that fills the gaps. You can fulfill those "useless" requirements with subjects that interest you or maybe subjects that don't interest you but which will ultimately improve yourself in some way, shape, or form. At the very least you will be more proficient at a game of Jeopardy.

I would rather make lemonade out of my lemons than deem them as "useless." I like to find the usefullness out of all of my educational and occupational exploits and assets resulting from the energy that I had spent on obtaining them... even if it means recalling some seemingly unimportant bit of trivia from the Astronomy exam. In all honestly, the education that I have received from my Biology course, Public Speaking, the General Anthropology DSST, and everything else - every little bit - has popped up from time to time to be proven useful. "If I combine this material and this material this will happen... learned that in Bio!" Education is life-long and for me, is not restricted solely to my major.

What I said and what you think I said it seems are two different things.