Law School?

[sirjake]

I'm not sure if anyone here would have the foggiest clue about this, but I figure it can't hurt to post this here as well. I posted it on degreeinfo.com already:

I almost have all of the required credits for my BA in Liberal Studies from Thomas Edison State College. Now I am looking to the future and wondering if I've screwed up. Almost all of my credits were earned via CLEP and DSST's. TESC doesn't offer GPA equivalents for such exams.

I've now come to understand that law schools generally accept students based upon GPA and LSAT score. If you consider the 8 community college credits I have counting toward my degree, I'm a 4.0 student. But that's only a small percentage of my credits and they're CC credits.

I've done reasonably well on all of my CLEP and DSST exams so far. The lowest score I'd have if I were in Excelsior for those would be a B. But I have no idea if that'll even matter. The vast majority are pass/fail at Excelsior too.

It seems to me that since I'm not trying to get into Harvard, as long as I do really well on the LSAT, it hopefully will make up for the "questions" of my degree type. Is that true? Do I *need* to do extremely well on the LSAT to have any shot at all at a good school? By good I'm thinking of something in the top 10 to top 30. Or do I not even have a shot there if I ACE the LSAT?

Anyone know about all of this? I'm trying to figure out how to proceed.

Thanks!

[ShotoJuku]

I'm not sure if anyone here would have the foggiest clue about this, but I figure it can't hurt to post this here as well. I posted it on degreeinfo.com already:

I almost have all of the required credits for my BA in Liberal Studies from Thomas Edison State College. Now I am looking to the future and wondering if I've screwed up. Almost all of my credits were earned via CLEP and DSST's. TESC doesn't offer GPA equivalents for such exams.

I've now come to understand that law schools generally accept students based upon GPA and LSAT score. If you consider the 8 community college credits I have counting toward my degree, I'm a 4.0 student. But that's only a small percentage of my credits and they're CC credits.

I've done reasonably well on all of my CLEP and DSST exams so far. The lowest score I'd have if I were in Excelsior for those would be a B. But I have no idea if that'll even matter. The vast majority are pass/fail at Excelsior too.

It seems to me that since I'm not trying to get into Harvard, as long as I do really well on the LSAT, it hopefully will make up for the "questions" of my degree type. Is that true? Do I *need* to do extremely well on the LSAT to have any shot at all at a good school? By good I'm thinking of something in the top 10 to top 30. Or do I not even have a shot there if I ACE the LSAT?

Anyone know about all of this? I'm trying to figure out how to proceed.

Thanks!

[SIZE="2"][COLOR="Blue"]I can't speak to the question of law school acceptance, however knowing that Excelsior does provide letter grades for some (rather than none at all) you may wish to consider heading that way in an effort to try to establish a GPA for your future needs and if a GPA is what you need then perhaps you should act sooner or later.

Personally I have amassed a large number of "letter grades" from several CLEP/DANTES exams that have been added to my previously earned grades from years ago when I attended SUNY.

Hope it can work for you.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[snazzlefrag]

SirJake,

Excelsior does award grades for all DANTES and some CLEP exams. If having a GPA is big issue, you may want to consider "investing" in an Excelsior degree instead of completing the degree through TESC.

Also, if you have at least 30 'graded' credits you are eligible for Latin Honors at Excelsior. I'm sure this would be an added boost to your law school application.

Summa Cum Laude (3.9+)
Magna Cum Laude (3.75-3.89)
Cum Laude (3.5-3.74)

The lack of a GPA is one reason why I don't want to go with TESC, the other being the lack of a specific subject degree.

Perhaps you could call a couple of law schools and simply ask them about the GPA issue before you make any decision regarding switching to Excelsior?

I hope it all works out for you,
Snazzlefrag

[yutzyj]

Hi Sir Jake-
my daughter is currently finishing up her first year of law school so i emailed her to ask her if she has any input that might help you out. i'm not sure if she'll have any answers for you since she went through undergrad the 'traditional way'. i'll let you know as soon as she answers. i know she is very interested in how i am getting my degree because she even emailed me an article from the new york times dated march 1, 2006, Online Colleges Receive a Boost from Congress. did you happen to see it?

[yutzyj]

ShotoJuku-
CONGRATULATIONS on graduating. your journey is about to end and another begin.

[anar579]

I'm a little familiar with what you're referring to, as the reason I'm pursuing my BS is to (hopefully) go on to law school. Part of the reason I chose Excelsior was because they award letter grades for many exams. I spoke to a friend who is just finishing up law school, and he explained the admissions process for most law schools in a simplified manner. When you apply to a school, your application is "processed" through the Law School Admission Council (LSAC). They evaluate your admission (GPA, LSAT, etc), and submit this to the law school in question. My friend had a BA in Psych at the time of admission, and he says they basically threw out several courses that were not core credits; the classes that were not considered in the new GPA were electives he happened to get high grades in, which brought down his GPA... bummer. Not all schools use LSAC, so keep that in mind. If anyone has more experience in this matter please add or correct.

I do agree with snazzlefrag in that you might want to consider obtaining a degree that will give you a GPA. I'd suggest calling different law schools you're considering and explaining your situation and see what they tell you. The sooner you have a clear picture of what you need to do the better you'll be able to take the next step. Good luck.

[ShotoJuku]

ShotoJuku-
CONGRATULATIONS on graduating. your journey is about to end and another begin.

Thanks for your "pre-mature" congratulations in advance as I am anticipating success in the last two items listed (in the signature) and hope to walk the stage in July.

[yutzyj]

Hi Sir Jake-
my daughter is currently finishing up her first year of law school so i emailed her to ask her if she has any input that might help you out. i'm not sure if she'll have any answers for you since she went through undergrad the 'traditional way'. i'll let you know as soon as she answers. i know she is very interested in how i am getting my degree because she even emailed me an article from the new york times dated march 1, 2006, Online Colleges Receive a Boost from Congress. did you happen to see it?

here is my daughter's response. i hope it's helpful and can answer some of your questions.

My best advice: call the admissions offices of all of the law schools that you are potentially considering. They will be able to give you their take on it, as all schools are different. Although law schools do base a lot of the admissions process on your LSAT and GPA that is certainly not the end of the inquiry. Each school has an index score that they use where they assign a certain weight to your GPA and a certain weight to your LSAT (usually more), they take yoru scores multiplied by the weight and add them together and then you get a number. If you are a certain score you are automatically admitted. If your score is too low, you are automatically rejected. If you are anywhere in the middle (which is the VAST majority) your file is individually considered. In doing so they read your personal statement etc. Law school admissions officers seriously considering obstacles people have faced etc. They really, really try to create a class that is diverse in many ways: race, age, and most importantly life experience because they think that it making the classroom more enriching when people are able to hear several viewpoints. They always give you the opportunity to explain your life, and they genuinely want to know, either through your personal statement or a separate portion of the application. The best website I can recommend is http://www.lsac.org. It is the official ABA site and has detailed information about admissions and every ABA accredited school.

[sirjake]

I thought it might be useful to post what I'm actually planning to do.

I've checked with one of the law schools that I'm considering. They say that as long as I have a GPA, they do not care if the majority of my classes are listed as credit. If they're college level credit and I do have a GPA, I'm fine. Now, that is assuming that I do well on the LSAT.

Starting out from scratch, I got a 157 on my first LSAT practice test (test number 39). My plan is to study my butt of from now till September 30th and try my hardest to get a 170+ score. I think I can do it, honestly. I probably wouldn't be able to get into Yale, Stanford, or Harvard, but that's OK, I only want to go to the University of Chicago. ;-)

BUT, even though I basically now have all credits required for graduation, I'm not going to get my last couple of credits till later and will not apply for graduation until I am fairly sure that I can get in on the strength of my LSAT score. If for some reason I don't do well on the LSAT or that I'm rejected at all schools that I want to go to, I'll probably enroll at Excelsior as they would convert many of my CLEP's and all of my Dantes over to a GPA. But I hope that's not necessary. We'll see.

I'll try to let y'all know what happens. My wife is working toward her undergrad via CLEP's and Dantes, so we'll probably still be active here.

Update: I just called and spoke to the director of admissions at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign... She said that my degree type would be fine so long as I have some way of documenting that the credits are "real" credits. I.e., they have a problem with credits from institutions where the credits were gained, but can't be proven because the student owes the school money and the school won't send a transcript. In those situations, they have no way of knowing whether or not the student got C's on all of their classes, A's, or didn't even take 30 credit hours when they put down 60. Sending a transcript from CLEP or Thomas Edison should be fine.

[ShotoJuku]

[COLOR="Navy"]Uh Oh!!!

I can't believe I'm reading this thread and, and, and, actually thinking about it. :eek: [/COLOR]