Homemade Pre-Med program

[cookderosa]

Let's all agree too that it varies by program.

The physics sequence at HES, for instance, omits thermodynamics and quantum mechanics "because," from my notes from the professor's explanation, "General Chemistry teaches that for the MCAT here." Meanwhile fluid statics and fluid dynamics are "covered more here than in physics' majors intro. [sequence]" because of their high relevance to medicine.

The physics textbook, by Nobel laureate Giambattista et al., includes licensed questions from past MCATs. Rubbing it in, the publisher festoons MCAT and American Association of Medical Colleges logos very centrally on the cover. At least one Teaching Fellow (TA) bases review sessions on The MCAT Physics Book, a well-regarded third-party study guide.

I would not say that HES teaches "to" the MCAT. They do teach to their students, they know very many are going on to the MCAT or other paths to health careers, and they work with this.

Of course, and "I" wasn't going to say it, but clearly not all schools are created equal. I think everyone should go to HES for the prehealth program lol.
I'm not sure how I got sucked in to arguing FOR someone to learn their sciences before they go into the SCIENTIFIC FIELD of medicine, but seriously, if that isn't self-evident, then....I got nothing. banghead

[Jonathan Whatley]

WanderingTeacher, I've been thinking further about your proposed schedule.

Feb 2016*Move back to Los Angeles*
-Attend SCHS to complete all prerequisite science courses (ISP - Accelerated Weekend College Science Courses - Class Schedule & Calendar). This will take about 6-7 months. (At the time of this writing, online science courses, even if they do come with labs are not going to make the application more competitive, unless GPA and MCAT are through the roof. I'd rather not taken the chance, or waste the money. Courses completed from this program however, are accepted at the medical schools I have interest in attending)
*During this time I will not be working, as I will be living off of my savings from China, so I will spend time during the week getting in my shadowing and volunteering hours between studying*
-June-Aug 2016 - Take the MCAT after completing O.Chem and Biochem.
-Obtain Letters of Recommendations from my science course professors, volunteer program directors, as well as from Doctor's that I had been shadowing.
-Sept-Nov 2016 - Apply, Apply, Apply!

I anticipate that the weekend courses will require 3-5 hours of studying each day mon-fri to be successful. With me not working at all during this time, that leaves a good 4-5 hours a day to do some volunteering and shadowing. I plan on completing that during the first two months of entering the program, as I will be taking the easier science classes like Bio and general chemistry at that time. Once I progress into O Chem, Physics, and Biochem starting in month 3 or 4, I will stop the shadowing and volunteering and replace that time with studying for the MCAT. These will be the harder subjects on the Mac as well, and with me learning the subject and also applying that learning my studying for the MCAT, I believe I'll be able to better retain and apply the material, thus taking taking the MCAT right after finishing these courses, and hopefully scoring high.

In ISP program you're looking at, it seems each "Block," the ISP's counterpart to a semester, lasts 3 weeks plus 2 days (so as to include 4 consecutive weekends), except where blocks are extended to accommodate holiday weekends.

Let's say you take two courses per block.
4 weeks (to account for the week between regular block course starts, or studying during a bonus week during a block with a holiday break) * 5 weekdays * 3 to 5 hrs per weekday / 2 courses = 30 to 50 hrs per course of outside-class studying.

The ISP schedule is based on doing the work of one traditional semester – approximately 15 weeks – in each block.

So you're planning on the same total outside-class study time as a pre-med on a traditional semester schedule who allocates 30 to 50 hrs per course / 15 weeks = 2 to 3.3 hours of outside-class studying, per week, per semester-length science course.

This is total outside-class studying, all forms, before and after class – reading the textbook, looking up supplementary sources, taking practice exams, in study groups with fellow students, at office hours with faculty, making notes, reviewing notes…

Would you bet on that student, committing 1.5 to 2.5 hours total per course, maintaining a high science GPA and strong faculty recommendations, then rolling into the MCAT almost immediately after coursework and scoring competitively? (Maybe they'd allocate two semester courses' worth to studying for the MCAT overall – at this rate, 60 to 100 hours.)

At least a student on a traditional schedule who out started this way and found that it wasn't setting them up for success would have time to correct course. The plan above to start science coursework in February, have more or less one academic year's of credit completed and take the MCAT circa July, and start applying circa September, leaves very little margin in which to correct course.

This isn't a good plan. I couldn't even endorse it for a student who knew most of the premedical science curriculum already. Spending 3 to 5 hours per weekday in total outside-class studying becomes less and less reasonable if a student is either maintaining a very heavy course load or moving on a very fast academic schedule. The ISP's "block" schedule is exceptionally fast. And if the ISP cuts any corners the MCAT, as Jennifer says, is the great leveller.

By the way, there's a personal essay from The New York Times that every aspiring pre-med should read, by a fellow student of mine here at HES:

“It seems a lot like diagnosis,” said Logan McCarty, Harvard’s director of physical sciences education, who taught the second semester [of organic chemistry]. “That cognitive skill — inductive generalization from specific cases to something you’ve never seen before — that’s something you learn in orgo.”

To develop orgo intuition, you solve problems and draw arrow-pushing mechanisms again and again, until they become instinctive. This takes a huge amount of time, for me 20 to 30 hours a week. The class turned me into a bore, a sleep-deprived, orgo-obsessed grind who saw the shapes of molecules in every sidewalk crack and snack cracker.

My study partners and I called orgo the “bad boyfriend,” because it stole so much time from our personal lives. As in, “I just blew off Thanksgiving dinner to hang out with the bad boyfriend.” Once, my 3-year-old clung to my leg as I tried to leave for class. “Mama, don’t go!” he cried. “No more chemistry!” Sorry, little buddy. Bad boyfriend’s calling.

This is one thing that orgo is testing: whether you have the time and desire to do the work. “Sometimes, if a student has really good math skills, they can slide through physics, but you can’t do that in orgo,” Mr. McCarty told me, adding, “You can’t slide through medical school, either.”

At first, this commitment of time and psyche did not pay off. On the first exam I scored well below the mean. My problem sets came back with whole pages slashed out in red pen. I felt stupid and demoralized. But slowly, orgo awakened my long-dormant spatial-reasoning skills, and I (occasionally) started to enjoy some of the problems.

Second semester, I had a breakthrough. On the third exam, stuck halfway through the final problem, I tried a new strategy. I put down my pencil, leaned back and stopped thinking. For a moment, nothing happened. Then the answer sprang into my mind’s eye. “Oh, my God!” I thought. “I actually have orgo instinct!” After that, everything started clicking.

How to Get an A– in Organic Chemistry (Barbara Moran, The New York Times, pre-published online November 1, 2013)

Before all of this Barbara Moran was an award-winning professional science writer with a master's in science and medical writing.

[WanderingTeacher]

WanderingTeacher, I've been thinking further about your proposed schedule.





In ISP program you're looking at, it seems each "Block," the ISP's counterpart to a semester, lasts 3 weeks plus 2 days (so as to include 4 consecutive weekends), except where blocks are extended to accommodate holiday weekends.

Let's say you take two courses per block.
4 weeks (to account for the week between regular block course starts, or studying during a bonus week during a block with a holiday break) * 5 weekdays * 3 to 5 hrs per weekday / 2 courses = 30 to 50 hrs per course of outside-class studying.

The ISP schedule is based on doing the work of one traditional semester – approximately 15 weeks – in each block.

So you're planning on the same total outside-class study time as a pre-med on a traditional semester schedule who allocates 30 to 50 hrs per course / 15 weeks = 2 to 3.3 hours of outside-class studying, per week, per semester-length science course.

This is total outside-class studying, all forms, before and after class – reading the textbook, looking up supplementary sources, taking practice exams, in study groups with fellow students, at office hours with faculty, making notes, reviewing notes…

Would you bet on that student, committing 1.5 to 2.5 hours total per course, maintaining a high science GPA and strong faculty recommendations, then rolling into the MCAT almost immediately after coursework and scoring competitively? (Maybe they'd allocate two semester courses' worth to studying for the MCAT overall – at this rate, 60 to 100 hours.)

At least a student on a traditional schedule who out started this way and found that it wasn't setting them up for success would have time to correct course. The plan above to start science coursework in February, have more or less one academic year's of credit completed and take the MCAT circa July, and start applying circa September, leaves very little margin in which to correct course.

This isn't a good plan. I couldn't even endorse it for a student who knew most of the premedical science curriculum already. Spending 3 to 5 hours per weekday in total outside-class studying becomes less and less reasonable if a student is either maintaining a very heavy course load or moving on a very fast academic schedule. The ISP's "block" schedule is exceptionally fast. And if the ISP cuts any corners the MCAT, as Jennifer says, is the great leveller.

Hi Jonathan. Well firstly, I've decided to do JFK's program instead, John F. Kennedy University • Weekend Intensive Science Courses - JFK University, San Jose , mainly because it is a lot cheaper, and I can avoid any potential accreditation problems that may arise in the next couple of years. As far as the course load and study time, you can't take two courses in 1 block. Both JFK and ISP's block schedule is set up to where you are in class Saturday and Sunday all day, for just one subject. So it would be impossible to take another class during the same block because you can't be in both classrooms at the same time. Which is why taking all the required science course will take approximately 6-7 months. So essentially I am dedicating 25-30 hours of outside studying time to one course only.

Also, like I said in a previous post, I won't have any outside obligations, besides the volunteering/shadowing that I hope to do during this time. With 16 hours of Up time Monday-Friday, with let's just say 2 of those are dedicated to volunteering/shadowing, and 5 dedicated to studying, that still leaves me with 9 hours remaining. Throw in daily tasks like eating, showering, driving, occasional errands, jogging, etc., we'll just take that down to 5 hours. So 5 open hours, Monday-Friday that if need be, can be allocated to additional studying. So say I do in fact add those 5 hours to the 5 I'm already studying. That's 10 hours per day of studying, 5 days a week, bringing the total number of weekly study hours to 50, and a total 200 outside study hours for the entire course. Obviously, this most likely will not be necessary, but I stated this so you can see that this is completely doable, again only if you have no outside obligations that takes up a huge chunk of your time per day. There would be no way I would do this with a full time job, I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. But I'm sure there have been people who have.

[Jonathan Whatley]

Hi Jonathan. Well firstly, I've decided to do JFK's program instead, John F. Kennedy University • Weekend Intensive Science Courses - JFK University, San Jose , mainly because it is a lot cheaper, and I can avoid any potential accreditation problems that may arise in the next couple of years. As far as the course load and study time, you can't take two courses in 1 block. Both JFK and ISP's block schedule is set up to where you are in class Saturday and Sunday all day, for just one subject. So it would be impossible to take another class during the same block because you can't be in both classrooms at the same time. Which is why taking all the required science course will take approximately 6-7 months.

I like what I see of JFKU's program much, much more!

I'd been working from the premise that you'd be taking the Big Four basic science one-year sequences (8 semester- or block-length courses) plus at least the one other you mentioned (Biochem, 1 semester- or block-length course) for a total of 9 courses. To complete all 9 on the ISP's block schedule in 6-7 months doubling up would have to be possible. I guess, instead, you've completed or you would have completed some of your prerequisite coursework already outside of the accelerated program.

Obviously, this [expansion of study time] most likely will not be necessary

Just something to think about: Can any of us take it as obvious that we'll do well in, say, organic chemistry with much less study time than the essayist above? That being 20-30 hours outside class per week, with orgo at HES being over two traditional 16-week semesters. Maybe, though this is unstated, she spent less time after the "orgo instinct" appeared during second semester. Still, there were high-stakes exams and real challenges to come even after that watershed.

[cookderosa]

I like what I see of JFKU's program much, much more!

I'd been working from the premise that you'd be taking the Big Four basic science one-year sequences (8 semester- or block-length courses) plus at least the one other you mentioned (Biochem, 1 semester- or block-length course) for a total of 9 courses. To complete all 9 on the ISP's block schedule in 6-7 months doubling up would have to be possible. I guess, instead, you've completed or you would have completed some of your prerequisite coursework already outside of the accelerated program.



Just something to think about: Can any of us take it as obvious that we'll do well in, say, organic chemistry with much less study time than the essayist above? That being 20-30 hours outside class per week, with orgo at HES being over two traditional 16-week semesters. Maybe, though this is unstated, she spent less time after the "orgo instinct" appeared during second semester. Still, there were high-stakes exams and real challenges to come even after that watershed.

Jonathan......shhhh....calm down. Go read more chemistry.

I heard sodium and potassium thought about dating, but sodium was like Na and potassium was like K.

Why did the bear dissolve in water? It was polar!:willynilly:

How often do I tell a chemistry joke? Well... Periodically.:roflol:

I would tell you another chemistry joke, but all the good ones Argon.eeya:

[Jonathan Whatley]

Jonathan......shhhh....calm down. Go read more chemistry.

I heard sodium and potassium thought about dating, but sodium was like Na and potassium was like K.

Why did the bear dissolve in water? It was polar!

How often do I tell a chemistry joke? Well... Periodically.

I would tell you another chemistry joke, but all the good ones Argon.

But you can tell my mind is on general chemistry. I responded to Wandering's education-planning problem by going straight…

Let's say you take two courses per block.
4 weeks (to account for the week between regular block course starts, or studying during a bonus week during a block with a holiday break) * 5 weekdays * 3 to 5 hrs per weekday / 2 courses = 30 to 50 hrs per course of outside-class studying.

to a dimensional analysis!

[cookderosa]

But you can tell my mind is on general chemistry. I responded to Wandering's education-planning problem by going straight…



to a dimensional analysis!

Of course. But you can't want it more than them. <shrug>