Harvard Extension School Students Rally for Degree Name Change

[ss20ts]

“They're not paying Harvard tuition though. HES is discounted.”- They are discounted- to an extent. Right now, one graduate class will set you back $3,100. I wouldn’t call that cheap. HES is discounted for certain people. If you work at Harvard in any capacity- you’re allowed to get HES class for FORTY DOLLARS EACH! Talk about a steal. What does it say about people to look down on a school they attend that actually caters to their own teachers and staff that serves them on a daily basis on campus?

Additionally, HES offers some programs that aren’t available at other schools. 

It’s the same reason why the HES school offers an ALM in Management and not a MBA- it’s in direct conflict with the Business School and runs the risk of false impersonation. It’s not entirely wrong that it would anger the alumni base.

Pretty much every private school in the US allows employees to take their courses for free or at a drastically reduced rate. That's part of their benefits package. Get a job there and you too can take $40 classes. HES is less than Harvard College and the other schools. 

Do you mean the other schools at Harvard? There's nothing on the list you provided that isn't available elsewhere. 

Risk of false impersonation? So then yes, the education provided through HES is not the same as the other schools. No one ever said Harvard was easy. There's a reason Harvard is one of the top universities in the nation. If it were easy, everyone would be accepted and do well which just isn't the case and never has been.

[collegecareerstudent]

“HES is less than Harvard College and the other schools. “- Different does not mean lesser. HES is different. Am I really going to diminish myself because I didn’t have wealthy parents to pay for private tutoring all of my life or that I wasn’t legacy (a 30% admit rate) or that I wasn’t interested in Harvard when I was 18 and had no idea who I was or what I wanted? No. Heck no. And I’m not going to have anyone reduce my efforts. Also, HES is one of the older schools and the original pioneer of distance learning. Originally meant for teachers and the poor and meant to serve the Boston area, HES eventually started training the military in distance programs, and now branched out to what it is today. Usually, erroneously, the University of Phoenix and other distance players are credited as number one in that regard. HES is a legend and a pioneer that will continue to be a major player in the future. The average student Is no longer 18 years old. The hugest demographic of students is adults, and it is expected to become the dominant demographic by 2030.

Like I said before, this rally happened right after our convocation ceremony during which the Dean told us we had all earned the right to wear the crimson and welcomed us to the Harvard family.

I am a former refugee. I didn’t have the same opportunities or choices that some Harvard College students have. It’s true our backgrounds would be very distinctive from one another, even in my youth. However, I think that is a strength. I am motivated. I have grit and determination and heart. Just like I was drawn to this forum for these strategies, I love what HES does and its flexibility. I always loved HES and will always stand by HES. I was never attracted to the college and I never went/wanted to go there. HES deserves respect for what it is and for what it does.

The school does not deserve some of the flack it gets. As anything, whether someone goes to the college or not, what matters is what you make of your time there. A HES degree is and can be marketable and we have to keep in mind that it’s not just your school but who you are that employers and other schools are choosing.

When you worked your way through undergrad, paid tuition in cash, used test out strategies, and managed to make time to volunteer and then get a Harvard degree as opposed to just going to the College, who do you think an employer is going to prefer?

The network at HES is also invaluable. Several graduating members of the college go on to HES for graduate school, but HES also allows for individuals from all over the world to become a part of your network. Many of these people are already established in their careers and are more inclined to help you get a job if you need one. I take full advantage of asking for LinkedIn connections and have made good friends in this way. I’ve met high-ranking government officials from Pakistan, I’ve met Pinoy Idol’s first ever winner whose father works in politics, I’ve met attorneys. HES has some already very successful people at the school, simply seeking to get another credential.


Do you mean the other schools at Harvard? There's nothing on the list you provided that isn't available elsewhere. - I told you I wasn’t finished and hadn’t even touched page five yet. I’ve dropped some considerable knowledge and I needed a nap.

Risk of false impersonation? So then yes, the education provided through HES is not the same as the other schools. ------- The education provided through HES is superior, in my opinion. There is no hand holding. I am in Beijing, so many of my classes are at 2 am or 5am, my time. There’s no one waking me up, or forcing me to participate. Not a single class I’ve taken has ever required less than 25 pages of writing. HES does require at least 3 classes on campus, however students can choose all of their courses on campus. You also can cross register at the college, Kennedy school, education school, divinity school, etc. Harvard also has partnerships with MIT. It’s not uncommon to find HES students who took half of their classes at MIT and vice versa. It’s not uncommon to have professors from the college or other schools who still also teach at those schools or who eventually transitioned to HES exclusively.

---

I’m sure there is someone who wanted to go to the college and didn’t get in and tried to go to extension for delusional reasons, but we overall, as the student body are not responsible for those people. That’s not why we joined. No one is trying to lie to anyone. We just wanted the best education possible and if someone wants to consider it real Harvard or not- that’s their business. My work ethic will speak for itself. I just don’t want or deserve to be blatantly disrespected to my face.

The HES school is a different school. The Harvard Graduate School of Education doesn’t accept or offer a similar curriculum to the Kennedy School of Government , etc. They don’t offer the same degrees BUT if you go to Harvard Extension School you can and will take classes from all of the schools you desire to if it fits into your degree plan. For example, if your field is Math for Teaching, you could probably incorporate several classes from the Extension School. If you study Government, you can incorporate tons of courses from Harvard Kennedy School. Some classes, the few that are on demand (most classes you take must be live at the very least, and then there’s the on campus component) are taken directly from the Kennedy School and recorded and then offered at HES. Those don’t require cross registering. HES caters to a different student- it doesn’t make HES “Lesser”. Admitted HES Students generally do extremely well in these classes. In my opinion, these classes tend to be easier than HES exclusive classes. Why do I think so? Because I take those courses.

I am currently in HGSE’s Certificate in Advanced Educational Leadership program. It doesn’t lead to alumni status, and requires an application process. It isn’t offered through HES. It allows accepted applicants to get up to 8 HGSE credits for 3000 dollars for every two, closely resembling on campus courses. By the way, now HGSE has a permanent online M.Ed as well. Credits from the certificate can be petitioned to be added to their degree programs, or transferred elsewhere. I’ve taken Developing Myself and am finishing up Leading for Excellence and Equity. Very straightforward content.

Then there’s Harvard Kennedy School’s Public Leadership Credential (PLC). This is a series of 6 courses and a capstone that are non-credit, that does lead to alumni status and offers a pathway into the Kennedy School’s Mid-Career MPA, or can satisfy 3 of the 12 classes in the Extension School’s Government program. They last 6 weeks each, require case studies analysis, weekly group meetings with a mandatory group assignment, etc. Classes are leadership A and B, evidence for decisions A and B, and Policy A and B, and then the final capstone. These courses do require an advanced level of math and have tedious assignments. They are a bit challenging, but I still think HES is significantly more difficult. Just taking this program is going to grant me alumni status at one of the other schools. These aren’t the only programs like this. It is fully possible to take advantage of more than one program at Harvard overall and combine them. As always, I recommend people heavily network and take advantage of alumni associations and clubs. My advisor at HES is a former admissions advisor for Harvard Kennedy School, so schools often share personnel and resources. There are also some professors who got their graduate degrees from the Extension school, which is cool.

There are certain ways one can distinguish themselves that other schools do not have during graduation ceremony, you can compete to make the oration speech at graduation (that is available to all schools and is considered a huge honor), but exclusively at HES you can compete for the Derek Bok Public Service Prize- which is an award given to those devoted to public service, plus a 3000 dollar cash prize. There is also the Dean’s Academic Achievement Award. For grad school, if you manage to get a 3.8 or higher, you get that award, but getting on the list is very hard to do. There are specific thesis awards and the like. I know those three specifically because those most interest me. There is an Honors and Prizes page on the HES website. Check it out if you’re interested.

Additionally, you’re right discounts for employees is not unheard of. But 40 dollars per class is a steal and that’s why I mention it. I’ve never seen a better deal. Of course if I could go from 3100usd to 40, I’d do it. I’d LOVE to work on campus, but I don’t think it’s going to happen for me any time soon.

---

Let me tell you what’s been going on the past two weeks! Every fall and spring, Career Services sends out a massive list of professors to the Extension School who need help with research. You can become a faculty aide that way, but of course, you have to interview, and competition is pretty stiff. Most professors look favorably upon HES applicants as we normally have additional degrees and skills. Earlier in the week, I interviewed for a research position evaluating the future of education development for adults with a professor who exclusively taught at the college for some time. I also had a talk with a professor at the Kennedy School who also teaches at Extension. I couldn’t really interview with him because Russian was a requirement, but he was doing research on Ukrainian refugees. That’s a great way to get research experience, even at a distance, from Harvard, and looks great on a CV. They also pay you a small stipend. I don’t know any other schools who do that.

Every summer, there is a hiring rush for Harvard Summer School on-campus housing programs for high schoolers or new college students and the proctor program for tutoring. You get board and a class covered if accepted into the program, and that also looks great on a resume. For a distance learning school, these opportunities are incredible.

We also have Crimson Careers access to Harvard graduate jobs, and we also have advising available there, but we also have Harvard Extension School exclusive advising. My advisor is very personable, answers me very quickly, and we plan all aspects of my degree program together.

I always tell students if you can take every course on campus, do it. There are ways to ensure you get the full on campus experience degree wise, if desired. But the hybrid program availability is great for those of us who require flexibility.

“I see in your signature that you have taken classes at other universities, could you tell me how the classes are better/different at HES compared to the others? I mean, what sets HES classes apart from say ASU? The professors? The environment? The material?”- We do often use case studies that are offered in the classes that outside of the course, individuals would have to pay for. We normally supplement those with literature works. HES has been more challenging than other schools. It’s the only school I’ve attended outside of law school that required me to know how to do footnotes. I had to learn how to do them on the fly, and it was very intimidating. There is no way to coast through the classes. Many of them are on Zoom if you aren’t on campus, but there is daily attendance and you’re required to make substantial comments live about what is being read and discussed, we also often do break out rooms and group work. There’s an intense amount of reading and writing work, especially in the English program, which is to be expected. However, I took one history and one government class, as well, and there was still an equal amount of reading and writing in those classes as well. If you haven’t read, it becomes painfully obvious and embarrassing. The professors lead the lectures of course, but they remain greatly accessible. My professors have even included slides about recommendations letters and how to contact them during and after the class. One professor even went over recommendation letter etiquette, which was very nice. They are kind, they offer supplemental materials throughout the week based on what interests we express often times, which is very nice, because we can tell they are listening to us. The coursework as mentioned before is often challenging. If it isn’t challenging, it’s tedious.

Also, when you apply for admission, if you pass the three required classes and pay out of pocket, you also have to take a literature and writing test. If you are doing a math related major, you also need a math test. You have to pass those to get in. However, most professors still do a screening process for every single class. Normally, every first class requires you get an impromptu prompt from the professor to see if you can write well and on the fly. It’s a gatekeeper assignment, so we’re constantly being tested. If you can’t do it- they can lock you out of the class. Farrah Abraham (anyone remember her?) Tried to sue Harvard a year or so ago, because she tried to go to the extension school but her professor locked her out of the class due to her lack of strong writing skills.

Next semester I’m planning on taking Beowulf- and will need to learn, know, or at least adeptly be able to translate Old English texts. I did have a brief introduction to Beowulf in undergrad. Old English is extremely difficult. We’re going to have to make a portfolio and compare and contrast translations of the works as well as attempt to translate on our own using multiple translation dictionaries that disagree with one another on meanings and words in the text. It’s going to be brutal.

---

ASU is a completely different experience for me. I’m doing the Google IT Support certificate through ASU which is 5 classes. I’m finishing up class 2. Thus far, it’s been one written assignment per class, no direct discussions with professors or emails, online modules, and a quiz for each unit. You need no professor interactions in order to complete these classes. You can’t become a faculty aide on campus or remotely if in this program. There are no clubs to join. I don’t mind this model. It is effective and easy, but there’s no alumni status. However, Harvard is the exact opposite of that process. You need to be strong in writing because getting a multiple choice 10 question quiz would be a luxury in HES courses. Every assignment is normally a written paper. I haven’t had one less than 5 pages. Combine that with working full-time, interviewing for faculty-aide jobs, being in HES clubs, being in HES Committees, etc. I’m doing a lot more than perhaps some other students- but the experience is what you make of it. It’s up to us to make our resumes strong and take advantage of the resources available.

“Why do you think there is so much hate towards Extension students within the Harvard community? I don't sense the same thing is happening in similar schools like Columbia's School of Professional Studies, Penn's LPS College or Georgetown's Continuing Studies. Why is this discrimination only seen at Harvard? “-

People are confused by the Extension name, and I think those other schools do a good job of having degree names that make it hard to “other” students. Harvard is also ultra competitive, I have sympathy for some of the college students. Imagine having tutors all of your life, and working your butt off in undergrad to get into the college, and there’s a 35 year old person in half of your classes who will also get a Harvard degree for the same cost (the College is cheaper than you think, at least for low income individuals. Aid is very generous) or less in some cases. Additionally, many of the students are told they are special their entire lives, and that isn’t untrue. However, they are suddenly in an environment with other people who are the best of the best and they no longer feel they are the best anymore. Harvard has a way of making everyone feel like insecure because everyone is so great academically and it takes adjustment to find out where you fit in this new, hyper competitive environment. Sadly, I think that makes some people think- well, at least I’m superior to that 30 year old who shouldn’t be in school anymore. I should say many people at the college are good people and on our side, recently, the Harvard Crimson posted a retraction for a poorly written article about Hillary Duff who attended a few courses with HES. The Harvard Graduate Council also voted to support a degree name change for HES but like I said, we’ve been battling for a long time, and this fight is far from over. We just want academically accurate degrees, but you bet that no matter what, I’m going to make the most of my experience and degree no matter what the diploma says.

This isn’t the first time this has happened. Radcliffe College on Harvard campus used to be an all-women’s school that didn’t carry the Harvard name. It used to grant degrees. The men at Harvard started getting really mad when the women started outperforming them on exams and academically. Eventually, women were allowed to join the college and other Harvard schools. This is nothing new.

The school needs to find a solution to reflect that, yes, our students graduated from Harvard Extension School. However, the name of the field itself needs to reflect what we studied, because we don’t study extension studies. But if we just put liberal arts then we are looking like the college if it’s undegrad or masters of liberal arts mocks the school of arts and sciences. There will be confusion. Harvard Extension School in name is its tradition, so changing the school name wouldn’t be good, but degree names need to be distinct because EVERY school at Harvard has a distinct degree name. Other schools, however, like the Education school, don’t have the same problem with this naming issue because they are the only school offering a Master’s in Education directly, so they don’t have to worry about that. However, HES offers liberal arts, math, engineering, and more. Liberal Arts in Extension Studies is already not accurate, but it’s hard to find a name that’s fully accurate. I already explained why Executive Studies wouldn’t work. Professional Studies re-naming failed to pass, though I don’t know what would be a better option, but it’s a heavily nuanced, complex issue.

---

“Also, your transcript says the degree is from DCE. Can't you all just say DCE rather than extension? In English, the word "Extension" denotes something that is literally not part of the original. Whereas a "Division (DCE)" is literally a part of the original. DCE sounds a hell of a lot better than Extension, especially in other countries where Extension is not a term that is used with universities.”- It sounds better but the Extension School name is tradition. Actually, before online transcripts became a thing, my paper transcripts always said Harvard Extension School, Division of Continuing Education at the top banner. However, Career Services is clear about how resumes should read and I follow the rules.

Anyway, long story short, when I graduate from HES, I will be a part of the Extension Alumni Association, the Harvard Alumni Association, and the Harvard Kennedy School Alumni Association. The graduate degree from HES is the only one I know of that is given in Latin writing.

Please don’t let naysayers rob you of a quality education. I hear a lot of brouhaha from people, but also consider those of us on the inside. Your education is what you make of it, but Harvard Extension does give you opportunities, especially remotely, you will not get elsewhere. I haven’t, and I’ve attended many, many schools. For the skeptics, I’ll keep you updated. Let’s see what I’ll do with my HES degree. Thus far, my grades at HES for me admitted into Golden Gate University’s DBA program and granted me a scholarship leaving my overall tuition cost at $12,000. Even if you don’t believe in the degree, get the best education you can, believe in yourself, know who you are, and push forward.

I’m proud to be in this forum, and I am proud to be a part of Harvard Extension School!

---

For example, if your field is Math for Teaching, you could probably incorporate several classes from the Graduate School of Education. **** Edit. Excuse that error.

[smartdegree]

I’m proud to be in this forum, and I am proud to be a part of Harvard Extension School!

---

Thanks again for taking the time to provide very detailed and candid feedback.  Really great info! 

[collegecareerstudent]

Every summer, there is a hiring rush for Harvard Summer School on-campus housing programs for high schoolers or new college students and the proctor program for tutoring. You get board and a class covered if accepted into the program, and that also looks great on a resume. For a distance learning school, these opportunities are incredible.---- I failed to be clear about this opportunity. Extension students can apply to be a proctor or campus associate to help students coming to the university for the first time or who are participating in the high school program or coming to the University for undergrad/grad programs. If accepted, workers get their housing for free and a free class while they assist these students with tutoring or adjusting to the campus.

I've noticed a series of typos as well. I'm sorry, but it was a lot of writing. Excuse the typos.

[Life_One]

Thank you so much for answering my questions! I read everything you have written, and this is a better write-up than I could ask for!

I've spent probably six months doing research on Grad programs and HES always comes up, but I'm almost always persuaded to stay away every time I see the HES debate. What you have written provides a much more valid look at all the material I would want to know about. Thank you!

[collegecareerstudent]

I do want to add that you can study abroad at the extension school via the summer school program, and you'd be going with students from the college and other graduate schools.

There are also some really great optional programs that look great on a CV but also satisfy degree requirements. For Museum Studies there is an optional internship that Harvard helps organize for you. According to the Museum Studies page: You can complete an 4-credit internship in a museum here in Cambridge (e.g., in a Harvard University or Boston-area museum) or in a museum near your home in the United States. In lieu of the internship, you complete an additional 4-credit elective.

During the condensed January term,Master's candidates in the field of government or journalism can spend a week in Washington, D.C. for credit. The program was suspended during Covid but is now back. Here are some details:
We invite you to join the Inside Washington Seminar in Washington, DC, for an immersive week with college students from across the country to discuss hot-button issues in policy, media, business, and politics. Participants interact with experts and public figures, explore different career paths, and go behind the scenes of organizations in the city where history is made. At the end of the program, you come away with an insider's view of the 2022 midterm election results and the issues at play leading up to the presidential election in 2024. This bipartisan program is one of the best ways to understand the impact of the political process and see how each of us can help shape democracy as citizens, students, and professionals.

The course is led by a Harvard instructor, so you can earn on-campus and Harvard-instructor credit. Details are emailed to eligible candidates early in the fall term and the two-week long course is listed with our January session offerings. The Washington Center’s application deadline is in November.

All you really have to do is look for opportunities and take advantage of them. All of these options look great on a CV, round out your education, give practical skills, and are just really, really, interesting.

I will touch on the online negativity later. I have a lot to say about that.

[sialiblo]

@collegecareerstudent interesting you mentioned about 30% admit rate for legacy. I am wondering what exactly count as legacy, does HES alum graduated with undergrad/grad degree counts as legacy? Or is it exclusively for parents who are alum of harvard college, not for other school, so parent that has MBA from HBS for example, doesnt count.

[collegecareerstudent]

Sialiblo, That's a really good question. Much of the data I got came from doing research based off of information that had to be made public by the admissions scandal some years ago. I believe the 30 percent admit rate- or increased admit rate- is exclusive to the college. However, I believe even the graduate schools ask if anyone in an applicant's family happens to be alumni of each school- but don't quote me. I haven't accessed each school's admissions applications. I don't think being alumni at any of the schools necessarily hurts an applicant, but I don't know how much it helps at the graduate level.

[ReyMysterioso]

"Could you tell me how the classes are better/different at HES compared to the others? I mean, what sets HES classes apart from say ASU? The professors? The environment? The material?"

Sure, so I'll try to compare/contrast.
U. Memphis: Took 3 free classes. Very autopilot. Somebody does grade your stuff but there's no REAL feedback of substance. No interaction with instructors or classmates. I could not tell you who the heck the instructors were. There were names but you never got any sense who they were. Brightspace platform. Dysfunctional school. Took six months to get an answer on how you get credit for the free classes. (You basically can't.)

Texas A&M Commerce: BAAS program - Took 2 classes as an admitted degree candidate. Classes were pretty much identical experience to Memphis - autopilot/no interaction. But the student advisor is A++ for whatever that's worth.

Jacksonville State U.: Took 2 free classes: Limited interaction with instructors, zero interaction with classmates. They make announcements, send you emails identical to the announcements, one or two give a prerecorded lecture or message in a video. All of them have a picture so you at least know what they look like, unlike the folks at Memphis or TAMUC. Easy quizzes with multiple attempts. No writing. Easy/no real rigor. Some of the content is really interesting. Canvas platform.

COSC: Took the required in-residency cornerstone & capstone in the Business program. Limited interaction with instructors. Writing projects, weekly discussion board posts, assigned reading. HIGH interaction with classmates on group projects. In the grand scheme of things, it all felt like the lowest-quality resources of any school I've done except for ENEB. Outdated blackboard platform and outdated message boards. Boring readings. Instructors felt like they were going through the motions and just making a paycheck. I never recommend COSC to anyone. There's no way to say this without sounding harsh, but the quality of the other students was questionable. Perhaps I just had bad luck with my cohort, but I didn't feel like I was in classes with other smart, capable students contributing to our collective education.

ASU: Took 11 classes through Universal Learner. Classes are all on "autopilot." Classes used to be on white-labeled Edx platform but are all moving to Canvas. High-quality resources! Excellent videos. High-quality instructors know their subject and are good at teaching it - although you have limited-to-no interactions. Innovative interactive "lab" elements. Many classes work in a creative project for a participation grade (only 5% of overall grade) that leaves it wide open to produce any kind of creative multimedia work you want. I thought that was a neat aspect. No real interaction with other students. I recommend ASU Univeral Learner to anyone and everyone who'll listen because the value is great.

ENEB: Total garbage. Kinda scammy. You just fill out template assignment papers, then them in and get a grade from some anonymous rando. That's it. That's the program. There's some very outdated content in there but there's no point in reading it since 100% of the grade is the single paper-project per class..

HES: There have been three types of classes in my program. All on Canvas.
1. Asynchronous with pre-recorded video content, yellowdig discussion board posts, quizzes and a paper. In these, the pre-recorded content was very high quality. They would shoot them on location at actual places in which the subject matter historically happened and explain a lot of social context of the era. You really learned a lot. The videos would sometimes have prominent guests the instructor would talk to such as nationally known statesmen and accomplished writers or scholars. These require at least one live zoom meeting interacting with instructors. Your feedback on the paper is detailed and thorough. So I would say relatively low student interaction, medium instructor interaction.

2. Synchronous or Asynchronous optional. So there's a weekly live zoom class you can choose to attend. It gets recorded and you can watch it later if your schedule conflicts with being able to attend live. Constitution & The Media was this format. The instructor was a Supreme Court clerk during some of the very prominent Court decisions we studied and talked about the events from personal experience. He is a very accomplished attorney, federal special prosecutor and scholar. A lot of Supreme Court goings on were happening during this class coincidentally and we would frequently ask him questions about current events. His insights were fascinating. VERY high instructor and classmate interaction. Class was by far the most rigorous I've ever had anywhere.

3. Synchronous. This is the majority of the classes' format. Weekly mandatory zoom meetings with lectures and/or workshops. Discussion board posts. Numerous writing assignments - some graded some not. Some in-class. Some homework. (In-class was never graded but always interesting.) Some writing assignments would be spontaneously added and not in the syllabus, so you got a little extra challenge. But you could always learn something from the different approaches you see other students take. Very high instructor interaction/classmate interactions. Instructors are very supportive and want to see you succeed/grow. It varies a little, so some are better than others. None are bad (so far), and the good ones are REALLY good. And the student quality is higher than anything I've experienced anywhere else. Every other higher ed situation I kinda felt like maybe I was the smartest guy in the room. At HES I feel like the dumbest. People that come here are sharp, bring a wealth of experiences. Many of the older students are very successful in their careers. Some are just getting started and you might be more of a mentor to them. The vast majority of the students bring positive attitudes and are invested in each others' growth and all want to see each other succeed.

So in a nutshell, compared to all the other college experiences I've had, HES has had the most immersive, the most positive and supportive learning environments, and also the most rigorous and challenging, and most rewarding. There is also more extracurricular support. I added one guy from COSC on Linkedin and never talked to him again. I have otherwise never connected with any other student from any other school. But at HES, there are dedicated facebook groups for programs, for HES in general. Whatsapp groups form for classes. I've become good friends with several classmates. We text each other all the time, give each other advice. I even ended up buying the current student president's autobiography, haha. He had a really "interesting" life. A great comeback story of overcoming drug/alchohol addiction.
I wasn't sure at all what to expected when I started my higher ed journey online several years back...but whatever I wanted out of college/learning experience, HES delivered it and more. And I can't say that about any other school I've taken classes with.

The obvious caveat here is that I'm comparing a grad program to undergrad classes.

[collegecareerstudent]

Raycathode, speaking of LinkedIn, we should connect, too. I'm pretty active on the HES FaceBook page, so you probably already know who I am. Our HESA President is awesome! I'm glad you bought the autobiography. He really does have an interesting story! I was literally just talking to him 2 minutes ago lol.