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(05-16-2021, 06:44 AM)Vle045 Wrote: I think making community college extremely affordable would be sufficient. I’m not sure about Free. People tend to take “free” things for granted.
I agree. In CA, CC has been affordable - $46/cr or less for many years; and yet, when the Promise program kicked in in 2020, enrollment did not go up. Low income people already were able to go for "free" and most of the rest were already paying for it because it was pretty cheap. So in looking at a state that has both inexpensive AND free CC, people still aren't taking advantage of it. And many that do drop out fairly quickly.
I'm not sure what it's like in states where CC is expensive, if that will change - if people truly aren't going simply because it's too expensive. It will be interesting to see.
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People don't go to CC when the per-credit cost is low because the textbooks are still outrageously expensive.
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05-16-2021, 02:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2021, 02:10 PM by ss20ts.)
(05-16-2021, 06:44 AM)Vle045 Wrote: I think making community college extremely affordable would be sufficient. I’m not sure about Free. People tend to take “free” things for granted. Although, kids in Ohio have the opportunity for dual credit classes starting in 7th grade. The class is free... as long as you pass. If you fail or drop it, then you pay. So far, my son has not taken advantage of this opportunity. He’s in 8th grade now. But I really hope he does some before he graduates.
What's extremely affordable? What's extremely affordable to Bob, Steve, Sally, and Jane are all completely different figures. Community college tuition and fees varies drastically from state to state as well. What's "affordable" in Manhattan is going to be totally different than what's affordable in Buffalo or Boonville (a tiny town in the Adirondack mountains). Now compare this to Hawaii or Texas or Minnesota. You'll end up with totally different figures.
(05-16-2021, 12:22 PM)rachel83az Wrote: People don't go to CC when the per-credit cost is low because the textbooks are still outrageously expensive.
No joke. I have a class I'm taking at LSU and my textbook is $207!
Community colleges don't just have tuition. They also have fees. Some programs have fees as high as tuition - student government, health services, parking, lab fees, university system fees, computer fees, the dean needs a haircut fee, etc.
There's also transportation issues for many people especially lower income people. They all don't own a car to get to the college. Many have to work and can't take classes when they're offered. There's a whole list of reasons why people don't attend college. Sure there's online learning but this isn't for everyone. Many people need someone to lead them step by step through learning something new. We all don't have great high schools who are truly preparing us for college and the world. Many people have also been out of high school for many years and feel like they'd be starting their education completely over and just don't have the time or energy for it.
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05-17-2021, 09:36 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2021, 09:36 AM by innen_oda.)
The point isn't to get every man and his dog to university. The point is to ensure that no one who WANTS to go to university, is prevented from doing so by the cost of attendance.
This measure isn't going to capture everyone, and there will always be outliers who, despite being given every opportunity, still manage to fail or drop-out. If your only mark of success is a 100% hit-rate, then of course you can declare confidence in failure from the very beginning. Fortunately, most people are a little more realistic.
Once you chip away at the elitism of tertiary study through eliminated tuition charges, it becomes a lot easier to advocate for other changes - reduced textbook costs, improved physical access, etc etc. Free community college isn't the full picture, but it's a great start.
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05-17-2021, 09:46 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2021, 09:49 AM by fladeefostog.)
(05-16-2021, 12:05 PM)dfrecore Wrote: I agree. In CA, CC has been affordable - $46/cr or less for many years; and yet, when the Promise program kicked in in 2020, enrollment did not go up.
I did consider this for myself, but the thought of living in California for two years, plus the 1 year beforehand for residency, has zero appeal. People are currently leaving Calirfornia in droves, I'm unsurprised enrollment isn't going up.
Make it more widespread (more than one of 50 states), and in several places (Appalachia, Midwest, New England), so you appeal to a wider cross-section of American society, and we'll get a better idea of what works and what doesn't.
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