Free Community College

[Alpha]

Like it or not, it's beginning to look like there will be some sort of legislation passed to create free community college.
Your cheat sheet for Biden’s free community college plan - POLITICO

[dfrecore]

The "f" word in our house - "free" No such thing. We require our kids to say "taxpayer-funded" because that's what it is. It can only be free if all teachers and staff at a school gave their labor for free, and the electric company provided free electricity, and the water company provided free water, etc.

Oh, and I always follow it with "and who is the taxpayer who's going to be funding this?" and they get to say "me." Yep, you. You're going to be paying for it one way or another.

[Vle045]

It will be interested to see how that works out. I have mixed feelings about it.

[freeloader]

The "f" word in our house - "free"  No such thing.  We require our kids to say "taxpayer-funded" because that's what it is.  It can only be free if all teachers and staff at a school gave their labor for free, and the electric company provided free electricity, and the water company provided free water, etc.

Oh, and I always follow it with "and who is the taxpayer who's going to be funding this?" and they get to say "me." Yep, you.  You're going to be paying for it one way or another.

That’s interesting. In my house, my children are taught to roll their eyes when they hear arguments like this. They understand that these arguments are just a convenient slide-of-hand used by people with a particular political persuasion to argue against taxation and governmental spending. 

My children, in contrast, have been taught to understand what free actually means. If you look it up, it means without cost or a requirement to pay.  It is no exaggeration to understand that this means on the part of the recipient, as literally nothing has no cost to the person or entity providing it. They are sophisticated enough to understand that everything has a cost to the provider. Even if there is not a fiscal note attached, an actual outlay of dollars or material, there is an opportunity cost associatived with providing that thing (whether tangible or non-tangible) of value.  

They have been taught that, by dfecore’s understanding of free, that NOTHING of this world is actually free. If you a person of faith, perhaps the love of a deity is free, but that’s a discussion for a different thread. 

My children have also been taught about the social utility of taxation and government spending. They understand that it’s better to live in a civil society than in the “wilderness” of economic theory.

[bluebooger]

your screen name fits you perfectly

> a convenient slide-of-hand used by people with a particular political persuasion to argue against taxation and governmental spending. 

there's no sleight of hand involved at all            
we are flat out arguing against taxation and governmental spending.

> If you look it up, it means without cost or a requirement to pay. 

but you ARE required to pay -- through taxes -- unless you are a you know, freeloader

[Swoneus]

Not in particular excited for something like this. As per usual when the government gets involved they overspend, massively mismanage, and somehow manage to fail at every turn. The government could walk into a grocery store with $100 and walk out with only half a pack of gum.

Having said that unfortunate truth, this is most likely the way of the future. I just wish that we could have literally any other agency that has ever existed on this planet to set it up besides our recent federal government.

[innen_oda]

Like it or not, it's beginning to look like there will be some sort of legislation passed to create free community college.
Your cheat sheet for Biden’s free community college plan - POLITICO

This is great news! Not only will it make higher education more accessible, it will also enable those children unfortunate enough to grow up in households which instruct them to mindlessly regurgitate the political views of their parents, the opportunity to critically engage, analyse and question a variety of perspectives.

Hopefully, this measure will get to those kids in time. Childhood is so so short, and the window to learn the skills of critical analysis and open-mindedness is so brief. The antidote to tyranny, authoritarianism and dictatorship is a populace willing and able to think independently. Hobbling one's children by discouraging their questioning prevailing views, and preventing them from arriving at their own conclusions independently . . . seems unnecessarily cruel. And all for the sake of having miniature mouthpieces who won't threaten your own beliefs. Sacrificing your children's brains for your own feelings. Astounding.

I would rather a child who ardently disagreed with me - and could justify and defend those views, than a mindless minion. I hope I'm not unusual in this.

[freeloader]

your screen name fits you perfectly

What can I say?  All of the dried, diseased snot handles were taken.

[Vle045]

your screen name fits you perfectly

What can I say?  All of the dried, diseased snot handles were taken.

I can not stop laughing.  Omg. I’m crying.

[dfrecore]

The "f" word in our house - "free"  No such thing.  We require our kids to say "taxpayer-funded" because that's what it is.  It can only be free if all teachers and staff at a school gave their labor for free, and the electric company provided free electricity, and the water company provided free water, etc.

Oh, and I always follow it with "and who is the taxpayer who's going to be funding this?" and they get to say "me." Yep, you.  You're going to be paying for it one way or another.

That’s interesting. In my house, my children are taught to roll their eyes when they hear arguments like this. They understand that these arguments are just a convenient slide-of-hand used by people with a particular political persuasion to argue against taxation and governmental spending. 

My children, in contrast, have been taught to understand what free actually means. If you look it up, it means without cost or a requirement to pay.  It is no exaggeration to understand that this means on the part of the recipient, as literally nothing has no cost to the person or entity providing it. They are sophisticated enough to understand that everything has a cost to the provider. Even if there is not a fiscal note attached, an actual outlay of dollars or material, there is an opportunity cost associatived with providing that thing (whether tangible or non-tangible) of value.  

They have been taught that, by dfecore’s understanding of free, that NOTHING of this world is actually free. If you a person of faith, perhaps the love of a deity is free, but that’s a discussion for a different thread. 

My children have also been taught about the social utility of taxation and government spending. They understand that it’s better to live in a civil society than in the “wilderness” of economic theory.

Love is free, if freely given.  I'm also happy to help on this forum - I give of my time and knowledge.   

But in this aspect, a government cannot give things for free, since it's not theirs to give - SOMEONE has to pay for those things.  So they may call it free, but I prefer that my children understand what "free" means in realistic terms.  "Free to me" is not really free, in my opinion.  Understanding that everything has a cost is important to understand as an adult (they are 17 & 18, certainly old enough to understand all of this).

And teaching my kids that "free" is certainly NOT free is not in any way shape or form saying that I don't believe in taxation or government spending; those are completely separate issues.

Now, as to our government with their wasteful ways - the trillions we'll be handing out...it's beyond ridiculous.  You may think that this is a good deal to give a bunch of "free" stuff to people, but the problem is, SOMEONE IS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR IT someday.  And unfortunately for our children, and our children's children, and so on - THEY are the ones that will be paying through taxation when we are long gone.  If the government actually had to pay as they went, there would be a whole lot less freebies handed out.  I just believe in paying for stuff now, rather than getting crap and then making future generations pay for things they're not going to be able to get and enjoy.  I think that kind of sucks.

But go ahead and teach your children what you want.  I'm preparing mine for the reality of very high taxes to pay for all that "free" stuff the government is handing out right now.