"Big 3" education mills?

[LadySearchDog]

What are education mills? Are the schools we discuss here ( like that big 3) one? Thanks

[burbuja0512]

Education mills are ones that will give you a diploma of questionable quality, low educational, and low workforce value. While I won't go into the whole debate about RA vs. NA, I will say that the Big 3 are all RA schools, and two out of three are state institutions.

When asked about my COSC diploma, I can easily say that it's a small state college in CT. But people don't ask me - why? Because it's a state college. Because it's RA. Because there is no reason for anyone to believe that a state college would be anything less than 100% quality. Because it is a quality education.

Don't fall into the trap of believing that an institution that accepts testing credits is anything less than legitimate. Most people don't worry at all about AP credits, right? You take the AP class, pass the test, and voila! You have the credit. Nothing mysterious or suspicious about that. CLEP is even part of the same company as AP!

There are others here who will explain much better than I do, but overall, if you decide to go to a Big 3 school, know that there are MANY hundreds and thousands of people who have gone before you and may never taken a single testing credit. Also know that your degree is not any less than your friends who went to other RA schools who have earned a diploma by sitting their butts in a seat for four or more years at exponentially greater costs. It's just a degree that can help you progress academically and in your career and allow you to do so more efficiently - if you are smart and plan well.

Lastly, many, many people who have a Big 3 degree that is largely comprised of tests have gone on to graduate from masters programs all over the country. My brother who showed me the testing path (back when you could do 100% test-out) got his masters from University of Texas. And my own masters program was extremely competitive, with Jesuit universities in two different countries (dual degree) and the Big 3 diploma was no issue at all. (Why would it be? It's from an RA State College)

That's my 2 cents.. but don't take my word for it. I'm sure others will chime in. But note that there are websites out there that HR professionals use that list diploma mills. You won't see the Big 3 on there. Why? Because they're not. More efficient doesn't mean easier and it certainly doesn't mean shady. It just means that I was smart enough not to go into debt over my undergrad and that I had the self-discipline to study a LOT, daily, on a strict schedule, enough to pass a test that's challenging enough to get college credit. I'm sure any doubt you have will melt away once you take a CLEP/DSST test.

Of course if you have the grades and the cash to go to an Ivy league, then that's what you should do. Why? In my field, it would be solely for the connections and for the recruiters that you'll get fresh out of school. But if you're looking at the Big 3 versus almost any other school, it's identical in your employer's eyes and has the same accreditation, so why sweat it? And no, you never need to "tell" anyone that you took a test if you don't want to. It's totally irrelevant since you have proven that you've acquired the same knowledge. Just like I easily tested out of Spanish by living in Mexico for 6 years. Not a soul would question that one! It's really the same thing for other topics. Gain the knowledge and get the credits. It's NOT usually easy, but it is a valid way to demonstrate learning.

[allvia]

I think you meant Diploma Mills when you used Education Mills.  The 'Big 3' are not Diploma Mills; they are all legitimate regionally accredited schools.

Here is a link to an article that talks about  "10 Ways to Spot a Diploma Mill" - https://www.geteducated.com/college-degr...ploma-mill

[cookderosa]

Essentially 2 kinds of diploma mills (1) is when you send someone some cash, and they forge a diploma and transcripts for you with the name of whatever school you want. Maybe you wanna go to Harvard? How about the University of Michigan? You want that back-dated to 2002? For $499 you can have the best diploma an inkjet can produce and pdf transcript. Lucky you. (2) An actual business or school that charges tuition and doesn't deliver any real education, but beyond not delivering a good education, they'll still hand out good grades, build a transcript, and award a degree/diploma. Schools in this category have sometimes shaky or pretend accreditation. Sometimes a company will create an accreditor as a technicality (The American Underwater Basketweaving Oversight Council) and then when they launch their school presenting: The CookDeRosa Basketweaving Academy, accredited by the AUBOC.... it's a phony credential.

So, to avoid being taken advantage of, you'll want to check that any college or university you consider is first accredited. There are fake accreditors, so don't just look on a college's website, check the US Department of Education database. https://ope.ed.gov/dapip/#/home

If it's in there, that is a good sign that it's at least meeting minimum requirements (enough that the Department of Education is allowing students to participate in Federal Financial Aid and use GI Bill - so it's a minimum check). From there, you'll want to see if it holds regional accreditation. While not every career demands a credential that comes from a regionally accredited college (many trades don't), it is the highest accreditation available - so if the college you're considering is in that category, all i's have been dotted and t's crossed. There is nothing higher.

Specific to your question, the Big 3 (Excelsior College, Charter Oak State College, and Thomas Edison State University) are all regionally accredited. You should also know that "big 3" is their pet name here, it's not something they call themselves- in fact, most of the students who attend those colleges aren't even using CLEP or other alternative credits, most are taking online classes and paying rack rate (ouch).

[Merlin]

Essentially 2 kinds of diploma mills (1) is when you send someone some cash, and they forge a diploma and transcripts for you with the name of whatever school you want.  Maybe you wanna go to Harvard?  How about the University of Michigan?  You want that back-dated to 2002?  For $499 you can have the best diploma an inkjet can produce and pdf transcript. Lucky you.  (2)  An actual business or school that charges tuition and doesn't deliver any real education, but beyond not delivering a good education, they'll still hand out good grades, build a transcript, and award a degree/diploma.  Schools in this category have sometimes shaky or pretend accreditation. Sometimes a company will create an accreditor as a technicality (The American Underwater Basketweaving Oversight Council) and then when they launch their school presenting: The CookDeRosa Basketweaving Academy, accredited by the AUBOC.... it's a phony credential.  

So, to avoid being taken advantage of, you'll want to check that any college or university you consider is first accredited.  There are fake accreditors, so don't just look on a college's website, check the US Department of Education database.  https://ope.ed.gov/dapip/#/home

If it's in there, that is a good sign that it's at least meeting minimum requirements (enough that the Department of Education is allowing students to participate in Federal Financial Aid and use GI Bill - so it's a minimum check).  From there, you'll want to see if it holds regional accreditation.  While not every career demands a credential that comes from a regionally accredited college (many trades don't), it is the highest accreditation available - so if the college you're considering is in that category, all i's have been dotted and t's crossed.  There is nothing higher.  

Specific to your question, the Big 3 (Excelsior College, Charter Oak State College, and Thomas Edison State University) are all regionally accredited.  You should also know that "big 3" is their pet name here, it's not something they call themselves- in fact, most of the students who attend those colleges aren't even using CLEP or other alternative credits, most are taking online classes and paying rack rate (ouch).

Jennifer said everything I would have said plus more. Though as a point of clarification, there is specific subject accreditation that sits on top of RA or NA academic accreditation. Some people would consider that "higher" since it represents accreditation in a specific academic domain, though it doesn't replace RA or NA accreditation.

For example, AACSB is the oldest and is generally considered the "gold standard" in business school accreditation. ACBSP is newer and more common, but is usually seen as second best. IACBE is the new kid on the block, and is generally not considered in the same ballpark as the first two, so comes in as a distant third place. A college doesn't need to have any of those secondary accreditations to teach business courses or offer business degrees, but they are not considered true business schools without one of them. The top firms and colleges will almost always prefer folks with AABSP accredited business degrees.

[dfrecore]

Jennifer said everything I would have said plus more. Though as a point of clarification, there is specific subject accreditation that sits on top of RA or NA academic accreditation. Some people would consider that "higher" since it represents accreditation in a specific academic domain, though it doesn't replace RA or NA accreditation.

For example, AACSB is the oldest and is generally considered the "gold standard" in business school accreditation. ACBSP is newer and more common, but is usually seen as second best. IACBE is the new kid on the block, and is generally not considered in the same ballpark as the first two, so comes in as a distant third place. A college doesn't need to have any of those secondary accreditations to teach business courses or offer business degrees, but they are not considered true business schools without one of them. The top firms and colleges will almost always prefer folks with AABSP accredited business degrees.

To further clarify, RA or NA accreditation is totally separate from the other types of accreditation.  So, you'll FIRST want to look for accreditation (preferably RA in most cases), and then you can look for additional accreditation if you need it from the "school within the school."  So the business school at a college can be accredited, the engineering school can have a different accreditation, etc.  There are different accrediting bodies for different areas, and only you know if that is important to you (AACSB vs. ACBSP was not important to me for my business degree, I didn't care if it was accredited at all as long as the school was).  But for some industries, this may be important.

But this is not what you were asking about, so I wanted to make sure that we're staying on point here.  Regional Accreditation is what you're looking for.

[Merlin]

But this is not what you were asking about, so I wanted to make sure that we're staying on point here.  Regional Accreditation is what you're looking for.

You're right, we're getting a bit off track.

Back to the point. If a "school" offers to sell you a college degree without requiring any work from you, or only ask for something like submitting a resume to prove prior life experience, then it is probably a degree mill. Those are the easy ones to spot. The harder ones to spot are those that offer degrees (often a bunch of degrees, which can usually be completed in a short time). The latter will usually claim to be accreditated, but it turns out to be by an organization that is not recognized by the Department of Education. These often claim to be less expensive because they don't accept federal financial aid. In both cases, they will generally not have valid accreditation. I came across a lot of these before I found this site.

Speaking of, you can check with the U.S. Department of Education's accreditation database to see if a college has valid accreditation in the U.S. To do so, follow this URL: https://ope.ed.gov/dapip/#/home

That site will show whether it is accredited, who is the recognized accreditation provider (they will sometimes even show the secondary subject-specific accreditation), and contact information for the relevant parties.

[armstrongsubero]

The BIG 3 are not diploma mills, they are legitimate schools with gold standard accreditation and with industry standard accredation.

Example for TESU their professional programs have CCNE for nursing, ACBSP for business, ABET for engineering tech programs etc I know for sure that ABET wont grant just anyone their accreditation neither will ACBSP. Take a look here to see all the accreditation TESU holds:

https://www.tesu.edu/about/accreditation

The big 3 are just non-traditional. It makes sense when you think about it, with the Big 3 you are basically teaching yourself instead of a prof teaching you so you save money that way, if you do need classes with a prof you pay a good price for them.

They aren't diploma mills, they are just different and I am thankful they exist.

[MrBossmanJr]

"They aren't diploma mills, they are just different and I am thankful they exist."

I second that statement. Some of the online courses I took at Excelsior were way harder than some of my B&M courses.

[dfrecore]

The big 3 are just non-traditional. It makes sense when you think about it, with the Big 3 you are basically teaching yourself instead of a prof teaching you so you save money that way, if you do need classes with a prof you pay a good price for them.

Actually, although they look "non-traditional" from our perspective of accepting alternative credits, the vast majority of students who go to any of the Big 3 just think of them as normal online schools.  Completely traditional (for online schools).