Best Computer Science degree?

[Merlin]

But as a hiring manager merlin would you accept someone with that degree for a CS postion?

Personally, as a hiring manager, a degree doesn't matter to me as much as their other career accomplishments. I know a lot of other hiring managers who look at it the same way. We hire people without degrees into IT and CS roles all the time because they have amazing resumes or have a portfolio of shipped products that proves they can get the job done.

On the other hand, if I were hiring for a position that required a "CS degree or equivalent" and everything else was equal, I wouldn't have a problem with hiring a candidate who finished the COSC program because I am aware of it. However, most hiring managers haven't heard of COSC and will be looking at dozens if not hundreds of resumes, so they will probably not take the time to investigate an obscure college degree program. So it depends on how they interpret the CS concentration I suppose. They might liken the CS concentration to someone with a BS in Software Development degree rather than a full BS CS. Then again, many hiring managers don't really distinguish between BSCS and BSSD when hiring anyway since they're looking for programmers and not computer scientists.

That said, like I mentioned earlier, if a candidate were to put down BS in CS when they have a BS in GS with CS concentration, I am pretty sure most hiring managers (or HR managers) would automatically pass because of the implied dishonesty. The candidate wouldn't get the chance to explain why it is the same thing.

As for people not hiring CS majors with a BA vs a BS... that doesn't really happen. At least I've never seen this happen in my experience. People don't care about the A or S. They care more about what school issued the degree (there is a lot of academic nepotism in this area.. meaning they prefer people from their own school or from a top-tier school), that the degree is verifiable (issued to the applicant), and that it is in the required discipline.

To be honest, if you're coming from a no-name school like COSC or TESU and the academic background becomes a comparison point against someone coming from a school like Stanford, UCB, or Harvard, you'll probably be passed over either way. That's just the law of the land. Of course, if you have an amazing resume and/or portfolio and come from a no-name school, you may be hired over the ivy/ivy+ candidates if they don't have the same background.

That all said, I do agree that someone with the COSC degree would be a stronger candidate for a graduate-level CS program than the other options given the more rigorous requirements to complete the degree.

[conexp]

People like to brag about how fast they can complete degrees. Most of the people making those posts are people who already have experience in their field and are coming back to complete the degree as quickly as possible. Since WGU is a competency-based school, this allows those people to move very quickly through their degree programs. However, that doesn't really speak to the quality of the program since those people are not there to learn, they're there to complete the degree quickly and spend as little time as possible on new material. I know this because I did the same thing in my WGU degree. However, less than 2% of the WGU student body are accelerators (at least according to my academic mentor), so the majority of the people are taking a lot longer to complete their degrees. They just don't post to brag as much as the accelerators, which gives people a false impression of the WGU programs.

According to their website, 70% of students finish it within 12 months. What do they consider accelerators?

Did you do your WGU degree in CS?

The WGU IT degrees, of which CS is one, generally have a pretty good reputation in the workforce.

Is that anecdotal or is there some data on school reputations?

In terms of validity, I think WGU is the only university that has gained regional accreditation in four different regions simultaneously. WGU has also earned ACBSP, CAEP, CAHIIM, CCNE, NWCCU, and NCATE programmatic accreditation across their various degree programs. I am told that they are also working on getting ABET programmatic accreditation for their Computer Science program.

In any case, you may not like the approach the school takes, but WGU is not a degree mill by any definition. It is a legitimate higher learning institution that caters to working adult students who wish to go back to school to complete a degree. They do so by showing mastery of the various competencies that make up each degree rather than spending time in lecture halls. WGU is also one of the least expensive regionally accredited colleges, which allows people to pursue an education that might not otherwise have the financial capability to do so. It isn't for everyone though. People who are not good at self-directed study or who require handholding will not be successful at WGU and will be better off in a more traditional 4-year institution.

You've given me more to think about. Thanks for the info.

[LevelUP]

If you want to go to grad school, I think the COSC program is a lot stronger than say the TESU program which lacks Calc II and Linear Algebra.

COSC is not a stronger program because there is nothing stopping you from taking those same courses at TESU to fill up your 40cr+ elective courses.  Employers are going to see your transcript, not the original program.

You could argue TESU is better overall because the total computer science courses you could take are far higher than COSC that is if you really wanted to maximize your computer courses.

[bjcheung77]

@conexp, where in Canada are you? WGU isn't available for Canadians - since middle of 2018, so you can cross that out of your list. I chose TESU BSBA for a quick check the box degree and going back to TESU for a double major in Biology and Computer Science.

Another Q, do you have any college credits from Canada? Are you familiar with another language? What's your budget? Are you specifically looking for Computer Science or would similar programs work, like Software Development/Engineering or IT? Are you looking at specific courses or would you rather have a pre-packaged set of courses?

BTW, WGU is like a better/larger version of Athabasca University. WGU is legit, it's got all the accreditation necessary for the 4 types of programs they offer Business/Education/Nursing/IT and for some of their programs, they're ranked pretty high for exclusively online degrees.

[conexp]

@conexp, where in Canada are you?  WGU isn't available for Canadians - since middle of 2018, so you can cross that out of your list.  I chose TESU BSBA for a quick check the box degree and going back to TESU for a double major in Biology and Computer Science.

According to their web site, it is available in "certain geographic regions", and I know a local in the CS program that just enrolled within the past month.

Another Q, do you have any college credits from Canada?  Are you familiar with another language? What's your budget?  Are you specifically looking for Computer Science or would similar programs work, like Software Development/Engineering or IT?  Are you looking at specific courses or would you rather have a pre-packaged set of courses?

I would consider Software Engineering / Development as long as it's got a science/maths background.  I'm interested in getting a degree.

[bluebooger]

The WGU IT degrees, of which CS is one, generally have a pretty good reputation in the workforce.

Is that anecdotal or is there some data on school reputations?

this is not about their IT degrees, but about their teaching degrees
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nson4jF20p4

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... and going back to TESU for a double major in Biology and Computer Science.

even more off topic than this thread already is, but how are you going to do upper level biology credits and labs ? 

and isn't TESU crazy expensive now ?

I've always been confused by this 
"If a student pays the fee, and does not apply for graduation within 12 months, they will be required to pay additional credit hour residency waiver fees."
https://www.tesu.edu/tuition/fees

does that mean you have to pay that every year that you don't take 16 credits

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"On the other hand, if I were hiring for a position that required a 'CS degree or equivalent' and everything else was equal, I wouldn't have a problem with hiring a candidate who finished the COSC program because ... So it depends on how they interpret the CS concentration I suppose. They might liken the CS concentration to someone with a BS in Software Development degree rather than a full BS CS. Then again, many hiring managers don't really distinguish between BSCS and BSSD when hiring anyway since they're looking for programmers and not computer scientists."

and @Merlin 
as a hiring manager what do you think about 
Bachelors Science Information Technology 
as opposed to a software development degree or a computer science degree or a concentration in computer science degree 
https://www.wgu.edu/online-it-degrees/in...ogram.html 

I'm guessing it depends on the job 
for example: I wonder if someone with an Information Technology degree would get an interview for this position if they had a resume that showed the experience 
https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=0485c1c59a7c67c3

• Bachelor’s degree in a scientific or technical discipline or equivalent and a minimum of three years related experience required.
  

or this one https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=f60b93a3bd672bbc 
which says 

• Education: Bachelor degree in Computer Science or a related discipline
  

[Merlin]

According to their website, 70% of students finish it within 12 months.

I'm not sure where that quote is coming from. According to WGU's website, 2.5 years is average to complete an undergrad degree:

"WGU students finish online degrees in 2.5 years on average, compared to the over 5 years that is the national average for graduation time. (And that’s just an average—many WGU students finish significantly faster even than that!)"

The 12 months quote sounds about right for a master's degree since 2 or 3 terms (12-18 months) is typical. At least that is what I was told by my program mentor.

What do they consider accelerators?

WGU has a concept called OTP (on-time progress) which is the minimum number of credits (CU's) a student needs to complete each term in order to avoid academic probation or suspension. It basically comes down to 12 credits (4 courses) per term at the undergraduate level or 8 credits (2-3 courses) per term at the graduate level. If you are completing more than double the OTP, you are considered an accelerator.

24 cu per term (undergrad @ 120 cu) = 5 terms or 2.5 years
16 cu per term (graduate @ 32-36 cu) = 2-3 terms or 1 to 1.5 years

Did you do your WGU degree in CS?

No, I completed my undergrad at TESU and completed an MBA at WGU (see my signature for details). However, I have more than 20 years of industry experience as a software engineer and architect.

I am actually in process of researching my next degree, which will probably be a doctoral or second master's degree in computer science, data science, or something otherwise tech-related to take advantage of my career experience. WGU is supposedly working on an MS in Computer Science to be released in 2020-21, but I may jump into their MS in Data Analysis next if I don't find anything else that piques my interest before next summer. Or I might start on that while I continue to look into Ph.D. programs. I'd be looking at 3+ years for a doctorate either way, but I can complete the WGU MSDA in 6-12 months.

The WGU IT degrees, of which CS is one, generally have a pretty good reputation in the workforce.

Is that anecdotal or is there some data on school reputations?

A little of both. I am a technology executive and hiring manager in the San Francisco/Silicon Valley area and have a pretty good idea about how school reputations impact hiring decisions in my area.

However, I don't expect anyone to take my word for it. A quick search on academic forums like this one, or on Reddit or Slack/Discord will show more anecdotal data on how many WGU IT grads are landing jobs or promotions after graduating (and/or how they liked their programs). However, if you want more quantitative data, you can also do a search on LinkedIn to see how many WGU IT degrees you find in technology companies. Granted, this may be skewed because most WGU grads are working adults who may have already been employed in tech before getting their degree (I'd expect this to be the majority in fact) but it may still be helpful as a validator. Of course, that would be more useful if you could somehow check degree dates against most recent job start dates, though that would be a bit of a PITA to do.

[dashfox]

I actually have a CS degree from TESU. It's great if you have a lot of knowledge and want to test out fast. But for solid learning and building fundamentals, unless you are probably taking the courses from TESU then it's lacking.

You can make up for this though, probably add a little Linear Algebra, Calc I an Calc II into the mix, take 2 or 3 courses from TESU, however I think if you want a solid CS degree without breaking the bank  then I would recommend the University of London program from Cousera:

https://www.coursera.org/degrees/bachelo...nce-london

It's actually very competitively priced.

If cost isn't a factor, Old Dominion University has an excellent program as well.

What's your budget?

If its SOLEY for personal development, then I cannot recommend university of the people enough. I took a few courses from their CS program, you will gain solid knowledge. You will take your time and earn your degree and you will get an Education without breaking the bank. I actually think this program is the better fit for you if you don't want to do the University of London program:

https://www.uopeople.edu/programs/cs/

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@LevelUP TESU isn't the only big three to offer a CS degree. COSC offers a Computer Science degree as well. I spoke to admissions and you can list it as a BS in CS on your resume, even though the degree is a "Bachelor of Science in General Studies with a concentration in Computer Science Studies", I don't think COSC lists general studies anywhere and before they removed the syllabus listing from their website I had a look at it, it's actually quite good.

Curious as to what your thoughts are on a homeschooled high schooler using TESU/Study dot com to earn his Bachelor's in CS (age 19) while doing high school.  Is a Computer Science degree from TESU not as appealing as say one from Virginia Tech?

[Merlin]

Curious as to what your thoughts are on a homeschooled high schooler using TESU/Study dot com to earn his Bachelor's in CS (age 19) while doing high school.  Is a Computer Science degree from TESU not as appealing as say one from Virginia Tech?

You can ask this same question about any degree. It comes down to name recognition. A degree from a prestigious school will always open more doors than a degree from a lesser-known school if you're a new grad. If you want to talk CS degrees specifically, it depends more on where you're trying to get a job.

• If you're looking to become a software developer, a degree isn't required at all, but if you do have one, it is always best if your degree comes from a school with a top-ranked CS program.
  
• If you're looking for a job that is more science-, research-, or engineering-based, then you'll need a CS degree and it will probably need to come from a top program (probably with ABET programmatic certification) to have the best chance of getting past the initial screens.
  
• This all assumes you're looking at junior roles since senior roles are more about proving competency and suitability through past work.
  

The TL;DR is that if your CS degree doesn't come from a highly recognized college or one with a top 20 CS program, they are all pretty much the same, and not much better than having no CS degree at all. The better recognized, the more chance that your resume may rise to the top of the screening list.

Once you start looking at more senior roles, your past experience and accomplishments become far more important than where you went to school. Having a strong professional portfolio (a GitHub repo for example) trumps education every time. This is also why people without CS degrees often find it easier to find work in software development since they took the time they could have been earning a degree to create apps that can be used in their portfolio to demonstrate what they have done and suggest what they have the potential of doing for their next employer.

That's my $0.02 as a long-time software engineer and hiring manager anyway.

[davewill]

Curious as to what your thoughts are on a homeschooled high schooler using TESU/Study dot com to earn his Bachelor's in CS (age 19) while doing high school.  Is a Computer Science degree from TESU not as appealing as say one from Virginia Tech?

You can ask this same question about any degree. It comes down to name recognition. A degree from a prestigious school will always open more doors than a degree from a lesser-known school if you're a new grad. If you want to talk CS degrees specifically, it depends more on where you're trying to get a job.

• If you're looking to become a software developer, a degree isn't required at all, but if you do have one, it is always best if your degree comes from a school with a top-ranked CS program.
  
• If you're looking for a job that is more science-, research-, or engineering-based, then you'll need a CS degree and it will probably need to come from a top program (probably with ABET programmatic certification) to have the best chance of getting past the initial screens.
  
• This all assumes you're looking at junior roles since senior roles are more about proving competency and suitability through past work.
  

The TL;DR is that if your CS degree doesn't come from a highly recognized college or one with a top 20 CS program, they are all pretty much the same, and not much better than having no CS degree at all. The better recognized, the more chance that your resume may rise to the top of the screening list.

Once you start looking at more senior roles, your past experience and accomplishments become far more important than where you went to school. Having a strong professional portfolio (a GitHub repo for example) trumps education every time. This is also why people without CS degrees often find it easier to find work in software development since they took the time they could have been earning a degree to create apps that can be used in their portfolio to demonstrate what they have done and suggest what they have the potential of doing for their next employer.

That's my $0.02 as a long-time software engineer and hiring manager anyway.

As someone who had a long software career without a degree, and now has one, I'd say the difference is more in WHERE you will find work. An engineer without a degree will find difficulty getting hired by companies like Intel or Google or Qualcomm. They may also have trouble with certain segments like government contracting. I found myself working for small companies (<200 employees) before I got my degree.

As far as the difference between some place like Virginia Tech and TESU, it's safe to say that VT has much better name recognition, and would play much better, especially to large companies in the region. Going to a school like VT will also afford the student the chance to intern while still in school. After you have a few years of experience the difference may not be important, but it will make a difference in the beginning.