Autodidacts/Self-Directed Education

[sanantone]

Do you think autodidacts are rare? Maybe the people on this forum are outliers. Do you think autodidacts are just born, just made, either born or made, or are a combination of born and made? This article argues that autodidacts are rare.
Ed tech promoters need to realize we’re not all autodidacts.

This research paper argues that self-directed learning is an urban legend, but I haven't gotten a chance to read the whole thing yet.
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[Bibby]

You can achieve great things with self-study. I've passed 14 CLEPs, using nothing but self-study. Many of you can share similar stories. If you possess ample curiosity and a healthy amount of self-discipline, you can vastly expand your knowledge by studying on your own.

But there are also some things where there's no substitute for the knowledge and experience of a good teacher or mentor. For most people, it's hard to learn how to do math, science, or programming without a helping hand. Even exceptionally gifted individuals like Bill Gates had lots of people helping him along the way. For me, formal education is most valuable when it's used to facilitate things that are hard to learn on your own.

[cookderosa]

from the first story:

"Most people are not autodidacts. In order to learn effectively, they need guidance provided by teachers. They need support provided by peers. And they need structure provided by institutions. "

"Productive learning without guidance and support from others is rare. A pair of eminent researchers has gone so far as to call the very notion of self-directed learning “an urban legend in education.”

"....according to Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers."


I think it's an interesting discussion. Clearly people here are motivated independently, however, this forum certainly provides guidance and support. In my own situation, I wouldn't have been able to complete my degree without this forum; I'm certain of that. That's why I'm still here after finishing my own education, because I know that this forum provides that guidepost many people are looking for, that first domino. I like helping.

I don't like titles, but I would consider myself a self-directed learner. I thrive when I study what I want, when I want, how I want...I don't especially enjoy "doing school" that is assigned to me (like a class). I'm also a huge edu-nerd. I'm the kid that "played school" and took adult ed classes at the cc when I was in high school; my friends didn't do that. I don't know where that spark came from, but I've always enjoyed learning. Furthermore, I don't think I'm all that smart! The implication is that autodidacts are "outliers" and special/smart isn't necessarily true. Learning for the sake of it is very enjoyable, in my opinion. I am good at school, but that's only because I know how to do school well, I have experience at it. I've said that here before, I think it's a different thing. I've watched smart people flush their lives down the toilet. I know many of them personally. All brains but no motivation or drive to complete things, so I think this discussion is interesting; because as a society we sometimes lump "smart" in with "school success" and I'm 100% sure they are entirely different things.

P.S. I had to quote that Malcolm Gladwell was mentioned in the story, his book Outliers was awesome, and I'm really enjoying his book David and Goliath. Super interesting!

[UptonSinclair]

The first article speaks of self-directed learning as a free for all with no guidance, but the ed tech supporters she criticizes are not promoting this type of setting. Let's take Khan Academy as an example. Khan Academy is not an unstructured approach to learning a new subject. The materials are fairly well designed and follow a logical structure. The same could be said for the CLEP and DSST exams we love. The required knowledge is based on typical course materials. There are organized textbooks suggested for study. This is a far cry from Bill Gates teaching himself to program on a mainframe computer.

It is understandable to see someone with an Ivy League education lament education without the perks of attending Yale or Columbia, but the education provided by many colleges and universities is little more than canned materials manipulated by publishers for maximum profit being taught by part time employees who are far more occupied with putting food on the table than they are intelligent conversation with students. The adjuncts can't be blamed, they are not being paid to provide the type of academic environment presented in the article.

This article presents the image of a lost soul standing in the middle of a library trying to decide what to learn. This is nothing like the impression I get from those on this website. Structure is available for those who want it. Instruction is available from some of the best universities in the country at the click of a mouse. Peer encouragement is available on websites like degreeforums. The supporters of ed tech she mentioned are not building the straw man this author so eloquently unraveled. They are supporting the tools many of us have used to complete our studies.

[sanantone]

The first article speaks of self-directed learning as a free for all with no guidance, but the ed tech supporters she criticizes are not promoting this type of setting. Let's take Khan Academy as an example. Khan Academy is not an unstructured approach to learning a new subject. The materials are fairly well designed and follow a logical structure. The same could be said for the CLEP and DSST exams we love. The required knowledge is based on typical course materials. There are organized textbooks suggested for study. This is a far cry from Bill Gates teaching himself to program on a mainframe computer.

It is understandable to see someone with an Ivy League education lament education without the perks of attending Yale or Columbia, but the education provided by many colleges and universities is little more than canned materials manipulated by publishers for maximum profit being taught by part time employees who are far more occupied with putting food on the table than they are intelligent conversation with students. The adjuncts can't be blamed, they are not being paid to provide the type of academic environment presented in the article.

This article presents the image of a lost soul standing in the middle of a library trying to decide what to learn. This is nothing like the impression I get from those on this website. Structure is available for those who want it. Instruction is available from some of the best universities in the country at the click of a mouse. Peer encouragement is available on websites like degreeforums. The supporters of ed tech she mentioned are not building the straw man this author so eloquently unraveled. They are supporting the tools many of us have used to complete our studies.

Good point there. There was the argument that self-directed learners wouldn't know what to study, but Khan Academy, Coursera, Saylor, etc. tell you what to study. There is even more guidance in distance education courses at colleges. Yes, when you study for CLEP/DSST, you follow their guides to know what to study.

[clep3705]

Another point to consider is opportunity. Bill Gates enjoyed an upper middle class childhood. He was close enough to ride his bike to the university. In the 1970s, security at universities was very lax. How many potential autodidacts don't have access to opportunities and resources (money, time, libraries, computers, internet, CLEP, this forum) to enable learning? I'm not diminishing the vast accomplishments of Bill Gates. Instead I'm suggesting there may be much lost potential we'll never know about.

[Johann]

Another point to consider is opportunity. Bill Gates enjoyed an upper middle class childhood. He was close enough to ride his bike to the university. In the 1970s, security at universities was very lax. How many potential autodidacts don't have access to opportunities and resources (money, time, libraries, computers, internet, CLEP, this forum) to enable learning? I'm not diminishing the vast accomplishments of Bill Gates. Instead I'm suggesting there may be much lost potential we'll never know about.

Good point - but with a "however." I admire Bill Gates and have read what published details there are of his student days. At Harvard, he is said to have capitalized on the availability of computer access and I've read that this access may have been more important to him than pursuing a set degree program. A great thing for Mr. Gates and (perhaps) other prodigies.

(Here it comes...) However, today, with largely unfettered access, how much serious computer work gets done in most campus computer labs, compared to how many time-wasters?

Johann

[AkaiOkami]

They are normal people that realized what society has told them is a lie. Common sense, and doctors, will tell anyone that listens, going the traditional routine in education is a straight line to a six figure debt. Mark Twain would agree. He has more common sense than a hundred of today's top universities combined. Why, because universities do not teach common sense, they teach little academics and more political agenda. Don't believe me, ask an academic professor (a person that went from career student to a person on public payroll with tenure that has never had a real job so they hate the capitalistic system because they cannot get the same pay as a CEO of Microsoft or Google or Apple or Facebook, etc ) what leadership is then ask a military personnel and a rabbi. No two academic professors will give the same answer while the military personnel and the rabbi will both give the same answer. Academic professors will tell you answers any where from a leader is someone who is adaptable, to one who is emotionally strong. Both the military personnel and the rabbi will tell you a leader is simply a person who has followers. Common sense, right! So how does this tie into autodidacts, simple, the article tries to intimidate the reader. Makes the reader feel alone. Tells the reader, you can't do it, you're not smart like Bill Gates, you need ______. Tries to make the autodidact reader feel bad so they will rejoin the mindless herd. Go through life and never think for one's self; lets someone else make decisions for them. Never questions the professor or the words in the school books. Autodidacts are not rare, just normal people that never let their common sense get stripped completely away and, because of this they know that what has been feed to them is a lie.

[UptonSinclair]

While I believe alternative education is a legitimate alternative to the low quality education offered by many colleges and universities, I would never compare it to the quality of education offered at others. I would gladly give up my alternative path for Yale, Harvard, Princeton, etc. but those opportunities are just not available. I have nothing against formal education and the academics that make it happen. My beef is with the administrators who have joined the futile prestige arms race and publishers who think education can be commoditized.

Formal education by its very nature is not common sense. When we critique the higher education system, I believe we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Most of the books and videos I use to study were produced by career academics. Without them, I would be lost.

I am thankful we have multiple opportunities to choose from and hope that even more opportunities present themselves in the future

[LaterBloomer]

While I like to think that I helped, I think that my niece learned to read on her own. On long trips, I'd get packages from the library with books on cassettes and the books. She'd be hooked up to the Walkman, and turn the pages at the "ding." When I passed signs, I'd point out ones that had letters from her name in it. Her father is an avid reader, her mother more of a magazine reader, and her grandmother and most aunts are reading addicts. In kindergarten, her teacher told her mother that my niece could read. My sister said, "yes, she knows 'exit,' and 'push..." The teacher stopped her and said, "No, she can READ." My sister asked her daughter why she never told my sister why my niece could read. The answer? "Because I thought you'd stop reading to me." My niece had a twin, and while she came from the same environment, she had to be taught how to read.

Things like readiness, willingness, aptitude, and interest come in to play when it comes to teaching yourself something. Some can do it on their own, some need assistance.