Anyone like to shoot?

[Peter123456789]

By "we" I mean civilians.

[Peter123456789]

I'm very interested in your answer to this question, Peter.

By "we" I mean civilians.

[SteveFoerster]

By "we" I mean civilians.

Ah. So it turns out that no matter how much "advanced thinking" is applied here, guns have a place in your "forward thinking society" after all....

[Peter123456789]

Ah. So it turns out that no matter how much "advanced thinking" is applied here, guns have a place in your "forward thinking society" after all....

Civilians possessing guns undermines the concept of a free society (I'll get back to this point later).
Let's look at Britain where most of their people and police are unarmed, yet they do have an army. While there were 461 “justifiable homicides” committed by U.S. police in 2013, according to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report, there was not a single one in the United Kingdom the same year.
Obviously the US cannot take away arms from it's police as there is about a gun per person here! But this is just an example of a gun culture vs. a non gun culture.

[merolpn]

Civilians possessing guns undermines the concept of a free society (I'll get back to this point later).
Let's look at Britain where most of their people and police are unarmed, yet they do have an army. While there were 461 “justifiable homicides” committed by U.S. police in 2013, according to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report, there was not a single one in the United Kingdom the same year.
Obviously the US cannot take away arms from it's police as there is about a gun per person here! But this is just an example of a gun culture vs. a non gun culture.

And............... you should read the next table (15) from the UCR. There were 281 “justifiable homicides” by private citizens. So, private citizens need guns just like the police do.

Look up the 1979 Carter Justice Department Study. The study found that out of 32,000 attempted rapes something like 30% were actually committed. When the woman was armed it dropped to 3%........... So, an unarmed woman is 10 TIMES more likely to be a victim of a completed rape as compared to an armed woman.

Also, I am pretty sure that in Britain the police started carrying guns again because of the illegal gun problem they have. (Due once again to gangs)

[SteveFoerster]

Civilians possessing guns undermines the concept of a free society (I'll get back to this point later).

You'll have to, because as a counter-intuitive unsupported assertion it doesn't do much on its own.

Let's look at Britain where most of their people and police are unarmed, yet they do have an army. While there were 461 “justifiable homicides” committed by U.S. police in 2013, according to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report, there was not a single one in the United Kingdom the same year.

Let's proceed as though both those numbers are accurate. This is only relevant if (1) that fewer Britons legally own guns is the reason that UK police killed fewer people than American police did, and (2) those 461 deaths at the hands of American police all were of people who had guns. The first of those completely discounts relative police culture, and the second is simply factually inaccurate.

Obviously the US cannot take away arms from it's police as there is about a gun per person here! But this is just an example of a gun culture vs. a non gun culture.

If it's obvious that police in the U.S. must have the choice to be armed because they might face armed criminals, why isn't it obvious that Americans who aren't police should have the same choice for the same reason?

[dposborne]

Hi Peter,

If you were my neighbor I would definitely respect your beliefs... See picture below...


[ATTACH=CONFIG]1463[/ATTACH]

I am always baffled by the "liberal leaning mentality" (hopefully referring that you possess liberal leaning tendencies doesn't offend you Peter). I would guess to say that most liberals think that if they don't like guns and shouldn't own one EVERYONE shouldn't have a gun... Guns kill people like cars cause driving accidents. Guns and cars can both be considered weapons and yet no DUI/DWI offender will receive even close to the amount of scrutiny as a lawful abiding citizen practicing their god given right to bear arms and protect themselves... oops forgot: NO ONE can believe in god these days either...

[Peter123456789]

Hi Peter,

If you were my neighbor I would definitely respect your beliefs... See picture below...


[ATTACH=CONFIG]1463[/ATTACH]

I am always baffled by the "liberal leaning mentality" (hopefully referring that you possess liberal leaning tendencies doesn't offend you Peter). I would guess to say that most liberals think that if they don't like guns and shouldn't own one EVERYONE shouldn't have a gun... Guns kill people like cars cause driving accidents. Guns and cars can both be considered weapons and yet no DUI/DWI offender will receive even close to the amount of scrutiny as a lawful abiding citizen practicing their god given right to bear arms and protect themselves... oops forgot: NO ONE can believe in god these days either...

Hi guys, I've been so busy studying for A&I Lit CLEP that I haven't been able to give this forum much time for a response. I will respond and continue to share my thoughts later next week after the exam. I do want to point out that guns are made for killing people and cars are made for getting people from point A to point B.
I ask Steve to entertain the thought of a society where you have the full freedom to offend.

I'm sure you are also fond of the quote: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
Robert A. Heinlein

Is this how you envision democracy?

[jgbenjamin]

I wish you the best in hunting; being that Im a girl I do not hunt; it does sound awfully funnnnn!Also guns are not allowed in my parents home;sooo-- I wouldn't know much about it.

[SteveFoerster]

Hi guys, I've been so busy studying for A&I Lit CLEP that I haven't been able to give this forum much time for a response. I will respond and continue to share my thoughts later next week after the exam.

That was the first CLEP I ever took. Unless it's changed dramatically, you don't have to go nuts studying for it, because it's basically a glorified literacy test. I may disagree with you ideologically, but you're clearly articulate and capable of critical analysis. I'm confident that you would pass A&I Lit even if you just walked in and took it cold (like I did). (I'm not trying to dissuade you from studying if you think it's important, I'm just stating my honest opinion.)

I do want to point out that guns are made for killing people and cars are made for getting people from point A to point B.

I agree that they can be used to kill people, but I think that because of this, guns are actually made to deter violence rather than commit it. It's similar to how the Soviet Union and NATO powers had nuclear weapons pointed at each other, and how for decades this deterrence prevented a third world war rather than be the means that one was waged.

I ask Steve to entertain the thought of a society where you have the full freedom to offend. I'm sure you are also fond of the quote: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

Why are you sure of that? I enjoy some of his stories, but really I'm not a huge fan of that sort of bravado. As I stated earlier in this thread, I don't even own a gun.

Is this how you envision democracy?

If by democracy you mean society, then no, because I think that's a ridiculous caricature of what society is like with widespread gun ownership. Here in Virginia we have "open carry", which means you don't need anyone's permission to have a handgun on you so long as it's not concealed. Assuming Heinlein really meant "manners" in the context you suggest, he'd be pretty disappointed, because it turns out that it doesn't lead to shootouts over personal slights.