Anyone for some pork????

[Ruddigore]

Does anyone think that the President will sign off on this current Porkulous Bill?

Or will he put himself down as "Present"? hilarious

How I wish he would!

Past surveys showed great numbers of Americans against this monstrosity. Where is all the money coming from (to pay for an increase in the funding of over a hundred government programs)? You know the answer: taxes. And the mystery place where congress seems to think that money appears magically...

[Gary]

How I wish he would!

Past surveys showed great numbers of Americans against this monstrosity. Where is all the money coming from (to pay for an increase in the funding of over a hundred government programs)? You know the answer: taxes. And the mystery place where congress seems to think that money appears magically...

It covers all the bases, wouldn't you say? Funny how even the experts are confused over where all this money is actually going to and how it will help. But you and the conservatives know. In the meantime we should just let America continue to meltdown, right? Have you ever been hungry, unemployed, scared for work? We need to get $$$ out now to jump start America. We let the conservatives have their chance and it didn't work......except for the rich. Now the American people have spoken, they want CHANGE. Everyone should be covered, not just the wealthy. Looking at the bill, it seems OK to me. I'm no financial guru by any sense but I can think for myself and I have no problem giving a hand-out where needed. I'm fine now but it can change in an instant for ANYONE. What is wrong with helping out the disadvantaged? Your in a good place right now probably so don't upset the apple cart so to speak, right? I would rather see a bill with $$$ going to those who need it rather than those who don't. Aid to the poor and unemployed, job training, extended unemployment benefits, infrastructure, health care, tax credits, energy etc, etc. What are you disgruntled about??? You must have one snappy calculator if you can really figure out the ins and outs of this financial albatross. Unfortunately, the Republicans got us into this mess (w/help from the Democrats) and it requires spending to get us out. Maybe not, but what would you like to see, where would you like to see the $$$ go? The banks and industry so it can be metered out? The rich will get richer and industry will continue to shed jobs and move overseas. Stimulation is what we need. We've been lulled to sleep. Reveille, reveille, ALL HANDS ON DECK!

[dc67]

Unfortunately, the Republicans got us into this mess (w/help from the Democrats) and it requires spending to get us out. Maybe not, but what would you like to see, where would you like to see the $$$ go? The banks and industry so it can be metered out? The rich will get richer and industry will continue to shed jobs and move overseas. Stimulation is what we need. We've been lulled to sleep. Reveille, reveille, ALL HANDS ON DECK!

Gary, I am glad you included w/help from the democrats. There is PLENTY of blame to go around. I wish we could clean house of just about all of the criminals in Washington. I, as a conservative, would rather see more tax cuts than spending increases to put money in working peoples hands to spend and get some benefit, to make the economy move. There is absolutley no question something has to be done. I dont know what "it" is. I am a simple aircraft mechanic, trying to pay my bills and raise my kids to not rely on others and to do the right thing. It is my kids and grand kids, I do not have yet, that I fear will be paying the price for all of this deficit spending. Once again I stress, I know something has to be done and I do not have all of the answers. I just wish the stimulus bill was all stimulus.

I started this thread, and like usual, it goes in different directions and gets kind of personal for some people. Yes, my intent was to voice my displeasure with Obama and the whole liberal congress, but although Gary and some others think we conservatives are all rich and uncaring, that is not the case with me, and probably not the case for anyone else on here. I may difer on my view of what needs to be done, but I whole heartedly agree that something does need to be done.

That is about as close as I can get to an olive branch...........

[Gary]

Fair enough. There is plenty of room in the independent party. Boat leaves shortly, your welcome to come aboard. No donations, no cost, nothing. Just free thinking! Do you want to be piped aboard?

[Ruddigore]

In the meantime we should just let America continue to meltdown, right?

Uh, no. Who advocated that? Not passing the stimulus is not the same as doing nothing.

We let the conservatives have their chance and it didn't work...

I wish we had let conservatives control things. Bush was not the paragon of conservatism. He was the one who advocated the first bailout(s)! Reagan economics has not had its chance to fix things in our current situation.

What is wrong with helping out the disadvantaged?

Nothing at all. But you must remember that the ends do not justify the means. By what means are we helping the disadvantages?

Unfortunately, the Republicans got us into this mess (w/help from the Democrats) and it requires spending to get us out. Maybe not, but what would you like to see, where would you like to see the $$$ go?

I would like to see the dollars used by those who earned them, not by the nanny government which always knows best. Many people complain about the rich (I am not rich, by the way). But who is it that creates jobs? Do poor people create jobs? No, they need jobs; let the private sector provide the jobs, not the government.

Capitalism works if left alone. If you don't believe me...sorry.

[DWII]

Well I'm all for the "free thinking party" and I’d even hop on board the ship as long as It really is free thinking and not forced views-one way or the other-. That’s how this country was founded and how it should continue to operate "freedom of speech you know-(to all people in all places about all things in all ways)-{ who is the captain? Is this the USS Constitution in Boston harbor? If so I’d be more than happy to go as soon as I can book my train ticket }

Now with the olive branch out I'll continue to exercise my freedom of speech and "Southern Ideals" as I dido Ruddigore!!!

[mongoose65]

[quote]"I would like to see the dollars used by those who earned them, not by the nanny government which always knows best. Many people complain about the rich (I am not rich, by the way). But who is it that creates jobs? Do poor people create jobs? No, they need jobs; let the private sector provide the jobs, not the government.

Capitalism works if left alone. If you don't believe me...sorry."


I'd love to agree with these quotes but they are sweepingly general and not correct. The "ones who earned them" have manipulated the system to their benefit and due to greed and lack of foresight, they have created a quagmire that "we, the people" lib, con, indy, whatever divisive label the narrow minded apply cannot get out of without gov't. intervention. It's a sad reality.

Am I for the stimulus pkg. as it stands? No way. Giving a gov't addicted to spending and averse to responsibility more money is insane.

On the other hand, there are some targeted areas where we MUST spend and I don't mean entitlements. Stem cell research, alternative energy development, the broken medical and insurance industries. We MUST break the stranglehold big oil has on this country. We MUST get away from Bush's "religious right" pandering over technological and medical research. America needs to LEAD the world into new technologies and EXPORT these or we will never maintain the quality of life we desire.

Capitalism would work if left alone, but unfortunately it WASN'T left alone. Financial investment vehicles were created that did not reflect true value. The gold standard is long gone. Ponzi schemes pass as legitimate investing. Wall Street has no basis in reality and is now a glorified casino with many card counters and sharks manipulating the game.

Some intervention is due, but the money must be watched like a hawk. As though it was your or my business or livelihood at stake. The gov't is just incapable of functioning that way. They just cannot be accountable and the companies lined up for a handout cannot be trusted to "do the right thing."

It's a sad mess we're in. It will get better. It always does, but someone has to step up and do the right thing. Unfortunately, Obama seems to be more of the same.

Ron Paul would have been the better choice.

[Farmerboy]

I'd love to agree with these quotes but they are sweepingly general and not correct. The "ones who earned them" have manipulated the system to their benefit and due to greed and lack of foresight, they have created a quagmire that "we, the people" lib, con, indy, whatever divisive label the narrow minded apply cannot get out of without gov't. intervention. It's a sad reality.

Am I for the stimulus pkg. as it stands? No way. Giving a gov't addicted to spending and averse to responsibility more money is insane.

On the other hand, there are some targeted areas where we MUST spend and I don't mean entitlements. Stem cell research, alternative energy development, the broken medical and insurance industries. We MUST break the stranglehold big oil has on this country. We MUST get away from Bush's "religious right" pandering over technological and medical research. America needs to LEAD the world into new technologies and EXPORT these or we will never maintain the quality of life we desire.

Capitalism would work if left alone, but unfortunately it WASN'T left alone. Financial investment vehicles were created that did not reflect true value. The gold standard is long gone. Ponzi schemes pass as legitimate investing. Wall Street has no basis in reality and is now a glorified casino with many card counters and sharks manipulating the game.

Some intervention is due, but the money must be watched like a hawk. As though it was your or my business or livelihood at stake. The gov't is just incapable of functioning that way. They just cannot be accountable and the companies lined up for a handout cannot be trusted to "do the right thing."

It's a sad mess we're in. It will get better. It always does, but someone has to step up and do the right thing. Unfortunately, Obama seems to be more of the same.

Ron Paul would have been the better choice.

I agree with a lot of what you said. Capitalism works if left alone! It wasn't and now we're are seeing the fruit. I think that our nation would be better off in the long run if we got rid of the federal reserve, had a president willing to cut taxes and tell the people to grin and bear for a year maybe 2. That is not going to happen. If only I were....

[dc67]

This is the kind of BU** SH** I was talking about when I started this thread:

Washington Times - Pelosi's mouse slated for $30M slice of cheese

30 mil to protect some mice in San Fransico. Little by little all of these pork projexts , that Obama got on national TV and said weren't there, will start coming out. If you spend taxpayer money to build a bridge, maybe you can call it stimulus. This though is just more corruption at its best. Before you say it, Yes, I know, Republicans do it to, but this time it is all Democrats 100 pct.
Atleast call a spade a spade, not stimulus, which it is not.

I wish I could just let this go but everytime I turn on the TV or read anything online, BAM, there it is. Of coarse I could just watch MSNBC 24/7 and I wouldn't have to hear any of this stuff I suppose.............

[DWII]

I'd also like to agree with what you said, you have some really good points...BUT>"some of what you said is “sweepingly general and not entirely accurate” !!!

I guess I’ll start with this quote:

The "ones who earned them" have manipulated the system to their benefit and due to greed and lack of foresight, they have created a quagmire that "we, the people" lib, con, indy, whatever divisive label the narrow minded apply cannot get out of without gov't. Intervention. It's a sad reality.

The ones who earned them in “general” did earn them (of coarse there are the exceptions ie: the Rockefellers, corrupt corporate execs, The Governmental Burocrats, and others), however many of the “RICH” esp. in the lower levels got their, from ABSOLUTE poverty by the sweat of their brow and the perseverance that enabled them to overcome all obstacles. I hold “we the people” to be responsible first, as we elected those who were next most responsible: The Government, and after that of course theirs the Banks, Those I mentioned before, and others. We do need Gov. intervention but not in spending!

Next:

On the other hand, there are some targeted areas where we MUST spend and I don't mean entitlements. Stem cell research, alternative energy development, the broken medical and insurance industries. We MUST break the stranglehold big oil has on this country. We MUST get away from Bush's "religious right" pandering over technological and medical research. America needs to LEAD the world into new technologies and EXPORT these or we will never maintain the quality of life we desire.

I’ll leave this one mostly alone as its personal opinion, however I will say that that the medical & Insurance industries are definitely broken. However I don’t think spending is necessarily the best way to fix them as that seems to have been part of what created the problem. (I disagree on the stem cell research) and agree mostly on alternative energy development “with proper supervision.”


Next:

Capitalism would work if left alone, but unfortunately it WASN'T left alone. Financial investment vehicles were created that did not reflect true value. The gold standard is long gone. Ponzi schemes pass as legitimate investing. Wall Street has no basis in reality and is now a glorified casino with many card counters and sharks manipulating the game.

Capitalism wasn’t left alone more the pity. But financial vehicles were not the cause of its downfall as you implied. It was government intervention coupled with the fed, and ignorance of how money works by the general public, as well as a list of other things I won’t go into for the sake of space. I can’t quite tell what you mean by Ponzi scheme*, the only “legal investment Ponzi scheme” I know of is Social Security which is a TAX, not an investment!!! You may be referring to the recent case of Bernard Madoff but he was a scam artist and a really good one at that who tried to pass of his baloney as a real investment yet it was still characterized by all of the tale tale signs of a ponzi scheme. The people who got burned were either ignorant of the signs or let their greed get the better of their caution. This is a function of the free market if your to greedy you get burned badly. Lastly on this section Wall Street is only a “glorified casino” if you don’t know how it works although there are those who do manipulate it for personal gain, the same is true of any field of business.(If you need clarification on this one just ask P.M.).

Next:

Some intervention is due, but the money must be watched like a hawk. As though it was your or my business or livelihood at stake. The gov't is just incapable of functioning that way. They just cannot be accountable and the companies lined up for a handout cannot be trusted to "do the right thing."

Your absolutely right here as this quote states: “absolute power absolutely corrupts”

Next:

It's a sad mess we're in. It will get better. It always does, but someone has to step up and do the right thing. Unfortunately, Obama seems to be more of the same.

Ron Paul would have been the better choice.

I hope it gets better but if hyperinflation sets in<if we use any south american country as an example> it will be years, toil, hardship, civil war (or at least unrest) and 3 governments later before things get straightened out. However I think even if it does get that bad I think America will pull out of it allot faster than they did although I can’t imagine the difficulties that would be endured, the closest example I can think of would be the worst thing that Y2K could have been. I hate to be so pessimistic but I really see that as a possibility, as horrible as it seems, if this thing doesn’t get fixed. Of course the government might save us all and we would become either an oligarchy, monarchy, or a socialist society. But enough of the dark side. Obama does seem at this time to be more of the same but he may come round, and actually pull this country out of this mess, at least I pray so!!! As far as Ron Paul lets just say he might have done some good things for this country “if he had been elected” although I disagree with allot of his ideas. But the past is in the past let us learn from it and face the future united.

My personal thoughts are that every one in this country needs to learn how money works. And the government needs to slash taxes way back as well as all true PORK and even as much of the exes spending on healthcare, welfare, and government aid projects as possible, and pay off the National Debt and spend whatever extra into rebuilding the economy, real hardcore stuff that will create jobs and give us an export surplus. This is not saying that I think we should eliminate, government programs just that they need to be more localized and monitored, theirs homeless beggars on the streets of big cities who are making over 200K a year of tax free income as professional beggars while the majority of single moms in the U.S. are under the poverty line. Yet they share equally in the program or the beggars might even get a little more. It’s not right and it needs changed. The moms are real hardworking citizens who need help the beggars are leaches on society. The jail inmates are given a free bed, free TV, free food, and in some cases even free education, in exchange for light work. While there are dozens of hard working families who are barely scraping by and even being laid of for a month could cause bankruptcy. We’ve all probably herd the joke about the street bum who purposely went around breaking the law trying to get thrown in jail for the winter the sad thing is it really happens. I guess I got a little of track their but the point is were really wasting a lot of money rewarding those who leach off taxpayers while those who really need the money aren’t getting sufficient assistance and that needs to change.

I could go on but I think I’ll stop after this comment: None of us have it all right, because we can’t see the whole beast from every side, but if we listen to each other we can see it from more angles and forum a better conclusion. We will all see things a little differently, and we’ll all have some things right and some things wrong. The point is to take the good and praise it, and take the bad and reprove it as gently as.

*(Definition: A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to investors from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors rather than from profit. The term "Ponzi scheme" is used primarily in the United States, while other English-speaking countries do not distinguish colloquially between this scheme and other pyramid schemes. Source=Wikipedia)