ALEKS Precalc before Algebra?

[Hometeacher628]

I started my highschool Junior on ALEKS to brush up on Pre Calc concepts this year instead of going on to a full Calc course because her Honors Pre Calc gave her issues at times and was not as solid as I had hoped. Although she ended Pre calc with a B, the Calc class is dual enrollment and will go permanently on the GPA, so I thought she could use a little review. After signing up with ALEKS, I thought she would just go through the math order, get the credits and move on. Since she is enrolled at COSC for her AA, the Intermediate Algebra doesn't count, so I had her start with College Algebra while studying for College Mathematics CLEP, and the SAT math. I was just shocked when she scored a 20% on her initial assessment. I had her work in her pie for a few weeks, working on things she had never seen before. We made the decision to move down to Intermediate Algebra for review, and she scored a 72% on the initial assessment. OK, when she moves over to TESC for the English BA the credit will count.

So the question is: what would you do? What she really needs to work on is Pre Calc! She is set to take a dual enrollment Calc class next year and really has to be solid for that class by the end of this school year. Should I have her take the initial assessment for Pre Calc on ALEKS to see what the score is? If it is low, keep working in it? Or then do a reassessment test for College Algebra and perhaps she'll have a higher retake? If she does Pre Calc, she runs the risk of schools not accepting her Algebra credit out of order. She will eventually get into a BSN program, just trying to avoid the wait list with the BA. I'm open to all ideas!

[cookderosa]

I feel your pain, this situation was almost identical to mine with one of my sons. It took some time for me to unravel what exactly went on in OUR home, so I can't say for sure if this is what happened with your child or not. In my non-mathy brain, I thought of algebra as "letters of the math alphabet" and calculus as a "novel." So, for me, I didn't understand how someone could pass a pre-cal/trig class while having gaps in algebra. As it turns out, my understanding wasn't exactly accurate. A good friend explained to me (using an extension of my analogy) that it was more like two pieces of poetry by the same author. :p In other words, there are differences, and your child probably got rusty in algebra. It's a lot to memorize, and for some people, they simply have an intuition. I don't have any of those children in our home lol.

For the SAT, it's only algebra. For college placement exams, it's only algebra. So, for testing purposes, scoring highly will depend on mastery of algebra. I won't tell you what to do, but you may notice a higher test score if you went back through Intermediate and College Algebra with higher mastery before sitting those exams. And frankly, unless she's using the precal /calc in her degree plan for her field, it's probably not necessary...where having a solid skill set in algebra would create a bigger impact.

(for instance, I can think of a 100 fields that use algebra as a pre-req and very few that require calculus. Even most physics courses for non-STEM students use algebra based physics)

EDIT: I just re-read where she's going into nursing. I can promise you that unless the specific program requires calculus, college algebra is the requirement as well as the pre-req for her sciences.

[Hometeacher628]

Thanks Cookderosa, I think you are right! On her ACT, she got all the difficult questions, but the ones she missed were the easier ones towards the beginning she hadn't worked with for years. Glad to find that last year on a test we used as a baseline!

I not so fondly remember the heated discussions my brother ( who did Trig in 7th grade, now an engineer) and I had when my parents made him explain to me how to solve for X. "How could you possibly solve for something nobody knows.?" I'd retort. I told him it was like telling me he was right, never really being able to prove it, (since it was an unknown) just because he was older didn't make him right! He could have been a more patient teacher.

As I was not born with the math gene, luckily my husband was. But who really takes Calc in college as an elective? I tell him all the time that he should have disclosed that tidbit to me before I said yes-as it may have influenced my decision!

Daughter does have to do college Pre Calc for her nursing program. I suspect it is used as a weeding out class. Also, her dual enrolled Physics II and Organic Chemistry next year both have Calculus as either Pre-reqs or co-requisites. The same dual enrolled calculus she's getting ready for for this year. She elected to do Anatomy and Physiology this year while she beefs up her math.

[Hometeacher628]

Is there any harm in bumping over to ALEKS Pre Calc and brushing up and getting 70+% then going to do College Algebra? How will most schools allow for transfer "out of order" ? It seems the account will only allow her to do one at a time. She will be doing the College Math CLEP next week.

[cookderosa]

Thanks Cookderosa, I think you are right! On her ACT, she got all the difficult questions, but the ones she missed were the easier ones towards the beginning she hadn't worked with for years. Glad to find that last year on a test we used as a baseline!

I not so fondly remember the heated discussions my brother ( who did Trig in 7th grade, now an engineer) and I had when my parents made him explain to me how to solve for X. "How could you possibly solve for something nobody knows.?" I'd retort. I told him it was like telling me he was right, never really being able to prove it, (since it was an unknown) just because he was older didn't make him right! He could have been a more patient teacher.

As I was not born with the math gene, luckily my husband was. But who really takes Calc in college as an elective? I tell him all the time that he should have disclosed that tidbit to me before I said yes-as it may have influenced my decision!

Daughter does have to do college Pre Calc for her nursing program. I suspect it is used as a weeding out class. Also, her dual enrolled Physics II and Organic Chemistry next year both have Calculus as either Pre-reqs or co-requisites. The same dual enrolled calculus she's getting ready for for this year. She elected to do Anatomy and Physiology this year while she beefs up her math.

Are you sure she can get into A&P without biology? You should check. Also, is she aiming higher than RN? Those sciences are in the pre-med sequence, not nursing. Just curious.

Is there any harm in bumping over to ALEKS Pre Calc and brushing up and getting 70+% then going to do College Algebra? How will most schools allow for transfer "out of order" ? It seems the account will only allow her to do one at a time. She will be doing the College Math CLEP next week.

She may not get any credit for ALEKS since they are not currently ACE-evaluated. That doesn't mean they won't be, but as of now they are not (which means COSC won't accept them). That said, COSC will accept math out of order.

[Hometeacher628]

[quote=cookderosa]Are you sure she can get into A&P without biology? You should check. Also, is she aiming higher than RN? Those sciences are in the pre-med sequence, not nursing. Just curious.



Yes, the fun starts minimally at the Masters level. She wants to do something in Forensic Nursing. A few family friends are persuading her to do nurse anesthesist or Medical examiner, so she's keeping her options open. She loves school, but I don't know if she will want to put the time in. Her study skills aren't the best. Funny, look at someone on paper and it looks great, but those who have had to develop good study skills because subjects just didn't come easy for them I think end up being better equipped for long term studies and higher professional degrees. The " slow and steady wins the race" scenario. I have battled adnausium with her to take notes during a lecture! She listens to lectures and never makes flash cards for terms. Drives me insane, because things never came that easy for me. Don't get me wrong - not saying a wing and a prayer and a little osmosis never worked it's way into one of my college classes! I just dont think that works in med school. She's still young.

[Hometeacher628]

Here's an update.

Cookderosa, you nailed it! Dd Worked through ALEKS Intermediate Algebra, then completed ALEKS College Algebra inDecember. Both went to her ACE transcript. No newsflash there, until I opened her recent ACT score report and saw her math score increase by 5 points. I guess the Algebra just got rusty! She will eventually go back to ALEKS and do the Pre-Calc., she just has a very full plate this semester. Thanks for the advice, and great call!

[cookderosa]

Here's an update.

Cookderosa, you nailed it! Dd Worked through ALEKS Intermediate Algebra, then completed ALEKS College Algebra inDecember. Both went to her ACE transcript. No newsflash there, until I opened her recent ACT score report and saw her math score increase by 5 points. I guess the Algebra just got rusty! She will eventually go back to ALEKS and do the Pre-Calc., she just has a very full plate this semester. Thanks for the advice, and great call!

You are very welcome, I'm thrilled to hear her new HIGHER score!! Wish her the best for me