ACSOM - Caribbean Medical School (New!)

[bjcheung77]

IAAR and Preliminary ACCM Accredited WFME Recognized
Preliminary is the main word you want to look at, seems it's going places though...

Read about this last year and apparently, they're now up and running!  Interesting turn of events, they've also got a tuition back program (restrictions apply).  Anyways, I found that this seems to be geared for American, Canadian, and Caribbean students... 

Institution Website: ACSOM Caribbean medical school | American Canadian School of Medicine
Last years link: American Canadian School of Medicine in Dominica to open in 2023 | Caribbean News Now! (thecaribbeannewsnow.com)

I've written about such institutions on the Degree Forum before: 
UMPI Collecting credits before applying? (degreeforum.net)
Caribbean Immigration (Med School Discount! - Secrets - Shhh...) (degreeforum.net)
Universities need pathways to postgrad (degreeforum.net)
University of Health & Humanities, Virgin Islands (UHHVI) (degreeforum.net)

[nyvrem]

about 200k for the whole program.

is that considered mid range or expensive?

[indigoshuffle]

about 200k for the whole program.

is that considered mid-range or expensive?

It's expensive. It's definitely more than 200k when considering other expenses. What I do not like about schools like St. George and most other Caribbean schools is that they are not honest about how much debt you'll actually be in. They throw scholarships at ppl but the cost and risks are extraordinarily high. 

At this point in my life, after doing all my research, what I recommend to any relatively young person who wants to study medicine--and is a united states citizen--is to simply go through the military or VA.

Up sides are that it is free, you get to serve your country, you become a military officer, you don't have to worry about scams or residency placement, and also, it's free LOL. IIRC they want 8 years of service. Eight years is not too bad when you realize that your time in residency count towards the 8 years. There are also VA training programs popping up now that the pandemic is over. The VA are hiring folks who don't necessarily want to serve directly in the military, but who are willing to give them a certain amount of years of service, and they will train you to become and RN, MD. 

By the way, they also Podiatrists. Podiatrists are legitimate doctors, and the residency placement percentage is near 100% unlike MDs or DOs. If one wanted, they could even train into surgical specialties including cosmetic surgery as a podiatrist. 

A possible downside I noticed during my many discussions with the medical recruiter was that they really want ppl to go into critical care specialties, which is not what I wanted.

[bjcheung77]

Medical school is expensive, that's why I created a spreadsheet for myself and the readers to compare the institutions... There are a few that are inexpensive, at less than 100K for all four years combined if you get scholarships. Heck, there is one where you do the first two years online (IHUS), the second two years are onsite either at a teaching hospital in the US or UK, that MD offering is only 80K USD. I would compare options and review success stories for each one that you are interested in... I found a few who actually succeeded in the recently defunct USAT who charged only $65,888 for the entire 4 years...

[Jonathan Whatley]

Medical school is expensive, that's why I created a spreadsheet for myself and the readers to compare the institutions... There are a few that are inexpensive, at less than 100K for all four years combined if you get scholarships.  Heck, there is one where you do the first two years online (IHUS), the second two years are onsite either at a teaching hospital in the US or UK, that MD offering is only 80K USD.  I would compare options and review success stories for each one that you are interested in... I found a few who actually succeeded in the recently defunct USAT who charged only $65,888 for the entire 4 years...

Offshore medical school gives ROI at or near zero if you don't subsequently

• obtain then complete a residency,
  
• including obtaining a residency training license from the state or states of residency,
  
• and obtain an unrestricted license to practice medicine on completion or residency or of post-residency fellowship training.
  

There is a very high risk that if you take foreign medical school with the first two years online, your path to a medical career will end by one of those points.

You would have a graduate degree in a biology subject from a foreign non-research school, which could have a bit of value in adjacent careers. But probably less value than a master's in biology you could have gotten in much less time, for a much lower cost, without relocating, and from a much more prestigious school.

The first cohorts of graduates of from this type of medical school might have gotten through the several hoops to unrestricted licensure through a sort of security through obscurity.

Since then, states have been tightening up their requirements, and they're free to tighten up their requirements further between now and the time you'd apply.

If you're a foreign medical school graduate applying for a license in the U.S., expect a good chance that to get a training or unrestricted license, the state medical board will audit your residential, travel, or visa history to determine that during preclinical training you lived in the country the medical school is in. Expect any exemptions for Covid are over.

I've heard many accounts of students saying choosing cut-rate foreign medical schools was the biggest mistake of their lives leading to career dead ends.

The foreign medical school market is a dangerous market in which to focus too much on tuition cost to the exclusion of other costs and to the exclusion of very different returns.

Of course, if you're choosing between two foreign medical schools both with odds of reaching licensure that are similar to each other and acceptable to you, and the cost difference is six figures, that could be your major determinant.

---

I would compare options and review success stories for each one that you are interested in... I found a few who actually succeeded in the recently defunct USAT who charged only $65,888 for the entire 4 years...

Please also review failure stories and the risks of failure at several points on the path.

Remember that some impressive statistics in this market are massaged. "95% of our students passed the USMLE Step 1!" Yeah, but the school makes students sit weed-out tests before the USMLE Step 1 and gives many of those students failing grades and expulsion from the medical school.

Now those student have lost tuition, living expenses, and time, and even if they transfer to another school, they'll face tough odds of ever obtaining a residency: having failed out of a medical school is something residencies notice.

Some of those weeded-out students could have passed the USMLE Step 1, but the school didn't allow them to sit it.

I've often seen offshore medical schools fail to provide straight up and well composed numbers documenting how many students attrit under what circumstances at what times. I have heard hand-waving spin about how some students spend all their time on the beach, but you wouldn't do that, no. It's not that simple. It appears that it's not uncommon for a hard-working, generally competent student to attrit out of these schools.

There are circumstances under which one of the better offshore medical schools is a good choice for a student. It's a stretch, but I can imagine circumstances where a less-established offshore medical school is a decent choice. But potential students should think critically and should focus on a lot more than tuition cost.

Medical school should almost be called pre-med part II. Medical school really doesn't do much on its own without admission into residency, completion of residency, and receipt of an unrestricted license from a state medical board.

[bjcheung77]

I agree, American/Canadian students should look into their respective countries first and then look into the Caribbean options afterwards. Essentially, get a good GPA for undergrad in any subject you want, not necessarily Biology. You can then ladder up a year or have your final year of your Bachelors electives focus on the pre-med requirements. For those who have a Bachelors in anything, you'll need to get a year of sciences under your belt, either at the undergrad or a Masters level. Make sure to meet all requirements from at least a few of the institutions you're interested in, then apply...

[Jonathan Whatley]

I agree, American/Canadian students should look into their respective countries first and then look into the Caribbean options afterwards.  Essentially, get a good GPA for undergrad in any subject you want, not necessarily Biology.  You can then ladder up a year or have your final year of your Bachelors electives focus on the pre-med requirements.  For those who have a Bachelors in anything, you'll need to get a year of sciences under your belt, either at the undergrad or a Masters level.  Make sure to meet all requirements from at least a few of the institutions you're interested in, then apply...

I agree, except that I've never heard of a medical school accepting a year of sciences at the master's level in lieu of bachelor's level prerequisites.

There's probably an offshore school that would do it. But I'd be cautious of a school whose admission approach was so non-standard that they'd do it.

My Gen Chem I lab partner at Harvard Extension had taken Gen II and Organic I and II already, and she'd excelled.

But she had tested out of Gen Chem I at Brown University with AP credit. That was enough for Brown undergraduate – but med schools she was applying to needed to see Gen Chem I course credit from a college. So she needed to circle back to this course way below her level to be eligible.

It was like a sitcom premise, back to school way below her level! Complete with a goofy lab partner way below her level, me.

She then got an MD from Michigan.

My Organic lab partner held an MS in Biology from Texas A&M. But her undergraduate credit was from India. Medical schools so strongly preferred American course credit that she too all but needed to circle back way below her level to take the standard undergraduate science prerequisites at HES.

She was also working in neuroscience research. She went all in on that and got a PhD from Emory.

[nyvrem]

if I'm understanding this right, Caribbean medical schools graduates are considered foreign medical school grads? If so, why do people still look at these expensive schools? There's quite a few medical schools in EU that teaches in english that cost 1/4th the price. I know Italy has quite a few. Won't it be the same?

Eg.

https://www.medschool.it/

it cost about 5k EU/year to study medicine there.

[Jonathan Whatley]

if I'm understanding this right, Caribbean medical schools graduates are considered foreign medical school grads? 

Yes, basically. A U.S. student who goes to any medical school outside of the U.S. and Canada is considered an international medical graduate. A non-U.S. student who does so and then applies for residency in the U.S. is considered a foreign medical graduate. Puerto Rico is considered U.S. here.

If so, why do people still look at these expensive schools? There's quite a few medical schools in EU that teaches in english that cost 1/4th the price. I know Italy has quite a few. Won't it be the same?

The Caribbean and European routes each have some advantages over the other.

Some U.S. states have restrictions against graduates from medical school programs that teach in English in countries where English is not a principal language. The Medical Board of California will only license graduates from such programs if the board has reviewed and approved that English-language program specifically, as of last I looked into this. The MBC has approved several English-language programs in Poland and two in the Czech Republic, but it doesn't appear to have approved any English-language programs in Italy. I believe some other states tend to follow California's list. (By the way, you might think, well, I'd practice in a state that doesn't have such a restriction. But if you cut out California and the likeminded states, you're down to few states in which to apply for residency, and those states may be getting outsized numbers of applications for their few residency spots from people in the same position as you.)

Caribbean offshore medical schools organize their curricula around USMLE test content, American drug names, American hospital practices, etc. American medical students in Europe often have to learn this second curriculum on their own on top of their school's local curriculum.

American medical students at many Caribbean medical schools spend all of years 3 and 4, clinical rotations, in the U.S. Their experience is in U.S. hospitals and clinics. Several Caribbean medical schools are well known and regarded by many U.S. residencies. Students on rotations have the chance to impress U.S. attending physicians who might admit them to their residencies, or recommend them to other U.S. residencies.

Several key Caribbean medical schools are approved for U.S. federal student loans, but I think very few European medical schools are. Many students need to borrow money not only for tuition but also for living expenses.

[Duneranger]

about 200k for the whole program.

is that considered mid-range or expensive?

It's expensive. It's definitely more than 200k when considering other expenses. What I do not like about schools like St. George and most other Caribbean schools is that they are not honest about how much debt you'll actually be in. They throw scholarships at ppl but the cost and risks are extraordinarily high. 

At this point in my life, after doing all my research, what I recommend to any relatively young person who wants to study medicine--and is a united states citizen--is to simply go through the military or VA.

Up sides are that it is free, you get to serve your country, you become a military officer, you don't have to worry about scams or residency placement, and also, it's free LOL. IIRC they want 8 years of service. Eight years is not too bad when you realize that your time in residency count towards the 8 years. There are also VA training programs popping up now that the pandemic is over. The VA are hiring folks who don't necessarily want to serve directly in the military, but who are willing to give them a certain amount of years of service, and they will train you to become and RN, MD. 

By the way, they also Podiatrists. Podiatrists are legitimate doctors, and the residency placement percentage is near 100% unlike MDs or DOs. If one wanted, they could even train into surgical specialties including cosmetic surgery as a podiatrist. 

A possible downside I noticed during my many discussions with the medical recruiter was that they really want ppl to go into critical care specialties, which is not what I wanted.

Former Army officer here. You still have to get into med school. That's the hard part. You still have to match, the military matching system is different but still some risk involved.

But I agree, its a good path to become debt free.

---

if I'm understanding this right, Caribbean medical schools graduates are considered foreign medical school grads? 

Yes, basically. A U.S. student who goes to any medical school outside of the U.S. and Canada is considered an international medical graduate. A non-U.S. student who does so and then applies for residency in the U.S. is considered a foreign medical graduate. Puerto Rico is considered U.S. here.

If so, why do people still look at these expensive schools? There's quite a few medical schools in EU that teaches in english that cost 1/4th the price. I know Italy has quite a few. Won't it be the same?

The Caribbean and European routes each have some advantages over the other.

Some U.S. states have restrictions against graduates from medical school programs that teach in English in countries where English is not a principal language. The Medical Board of California will only license graduates from such programs if the board has reviewed and approved that English-language program specifically, as of last I looked into this. The MBC has approved several English-language programs in Poland and two in the Czech Republic, but it doesn't appear to have approved any English-language programs in Italy. I believe some other states tend to follow California's list. (By the way, you might think, well, I'd practice in a state that doesn't have such a restriction. But if you cut out California and the likeminded states, you're down to few states in which to apply for residency, and those states may be getting outsized numbers of applications for their few residency spots from people in the same position as you.)

Caribbean offshore medical schools organize their curricula around USMLE test content, American drug names, American hospital practices, etc. American medical students in Europe often have to learn this second curriculum on their own on top of their school's local curriculum.

American medical students at many Caribbean medical schools spend all of years 3 and 4, clinical rotations, in the U.S. Their experience is in U.S. hospitals and clinics. Several Caribbean medical schools are well known and regarded by many U.S. residencies. Students on rotations have the chance to impress U.S. attending physicians who might admit them to their residencies, or recommend them to other U.S. residencies.

Several key Caribbean medical schools are approved for U.S. federal student loans, but I think very few European medical schools are. Many students need to borrow money not only for tuition but also for living expenses.

Agreed on most if not all counts.

It's like playing Russian Roulette. Yes, you can go through and crush the STEP exams and likely land a FM/IM residency. Your chance of getting any other noteworthy residency is very small. The results are public for those who are interested. In addition, the schools gatekeep who can take STEP 1 and the learning environment is essentially "for the wolves". Sink or swim with a likely 300k debt around your neck. I FULLY admit there are a decent amount of success stories but there is still a lot of risk.

It caters to those who can't get into US med schools knowing that many can't "hack it" which is why admitted classes are 1000+. A more sane proposition is to take a step back and focus on the weak points of your app. Poor interviews? Low MCAT/GPA? There are multiple post-bacc programs out there that will tune you up to get into at least some US DO or MD school.

I know quite a few Carribean grads and almost none of them recommend it in hindsight. Logically it makes little sense. Just improve your app and apply again if you don't get in the first time. These schools are almost all predatory.

Year of sciences at the masters level is not likely. Sure some schools don't require the traditional pre-reqs on paper but these are all top tier schools that are mostly just saying it to project a "holistic" outlook to admission. Smoke and mirrors. 

You generally need:
2 sem Gen Bio
2 sem Gen chem
2 sem Org chem
2 sem physics
1 sem calc
some want genetics, biochem etc

No getting around it.

Edit: Not addressing the whole post to you, just some comments in general