05-10-2010, 10:50 PM
Hi. I've lived in NJ all my life. New Jersey has some serious state-wide issues, and situations like this are simply the reality. Although I will be graduating through Excelsior, all of my non-GRE credits have come from butt-in-the-seat classes in Jersey: two different county colleges and Rutgers, having had classes on College Ave, Livingston, Busch and Cook, all the way up through Junior standing at Rutgers (Senior at Excelsior). I have friends and family that have attended and graduated one of, or both, Rutgers and TESC. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is certainly not an "expert" one, but I have to strongly disagree with those who think this "merger" in any way benefits those who are considering GOING to TESC.
What "is" TESC? Why is it one of the "Big 3"? Why do almost all people who discuss it on this forum do so? It is because of what makes TESC TESC. It is its no residency requirement. It is the upwards of 80 credits transferable from two-year colleges. It is extensive acceptance of CLEP and DSST. It is the nigh unprecedented acceptance of free FEMA credits. It is all those plus its own low tuition fees. This will all be gone. Period, end of story, gone. Rutgers might get stuck with grandfathering in existing matriculating TESC students, but mark my words, ALL new students will be held to Rutgers standards and Rutgers cost. Minimum 30 credits residency. Maximum two-year transfer of 60 credits. Very, VERY limited CLEP and DSST options. They will never take FEMA.
And those are just the broad strokes. An example of a fine detail: Rutgers is very unforgiving when it comes to its psychology program. Only Intro, two electives and a Quantitative Methods class can be used from a two-year school. That's it. You have to take at LEAST 7 in-class psych courses at Rutgers. Fieldwork, research, internships and HONORS courses do NOT count towards the 7, and that's for their own stuff! They don't even accept on-line courses at all for major or minor, and almost always say no to even in-class winter sessoin classes! http://www.psychology.rutgers.edu/undergrad/faqs.pdf
Oh yeah. And their major is a minimum of 38 credits.
I was enrolled when Rutgers went through its big merger of its constellation of colleges (Livingston, University, etc.) into the Facutly of Arts and Sciences. The argument put forward was that the university had to start saving money any which way it could, so instead of raising tuition AGAIN, they wanted to eliminate duplicated administrative positions. They also wanted to do away with the different rules that Rutgers grads dealt with. You needed to have 120 credits in order to graduate with a bachelor's, unless you were a Cook College student, then you needed 128. Students in Rutgers College "proper" (the original New Brunswick college) needed to complete both a major and a minor, and if one was in the sciences the other had to be in the humanities. No other college required that. University College students had an easier Pass/Fail policy then the other colleges. Yet, we all had Rutgers diplomas, and the adminstration thought that it just created inconsistencies and confusion. I agreed with that move. It just made sense, and the people who were upset with it were individuals whose personal experience was going to get washed away in the process. A legitimate stance to take but everyone's experience has weight, and the proposed streamlining went through.
The differences in specific academic policies between the different colleges at Rutgers at that time were NOTHING compared to the differences between TESC and the Faculty of Arts and Sciences now. It is utterly night and day. I don't see how there is a snowball's chance in hell of Rutgers changing any significant academic requirements. They don't have to. Like I said, TESC has a lot of students but practically zero financial power or any standing in the academic community. TESC is 3 years older than me. Rutgers is 10 years older than the country. The entire full-time administration at TESC I believe is smaller than the number of professors in Rutgers' English department. In short, this would not be a "merger" by a long shot. Rutgersâ athletics budget for FY2008 was approximately $50 million, or less than 3 percent of the universityâs total $1.75 billion budget. The entire state contribution to TESC is currently at $5.6 million. Merger? TESC would be one BUILDING at Rutgers. They would have no clout, leverage or standing with regards to Rutgers. They would simply be a portal through which people would pay Rutgers prices for Rutgers classes.
TESC's comprehensive out-of-state tuition = $6720 first year, $5845 subsequent. In-state = $4695 and $3910 respectively. That's for 36 credits. $109 to $187 per credit, and of course you can transfer and CLEP/DSST credits like crazy. Rutgers is $20,456 for out-of-state and $9546 in-state, and that doesn't include $2340 in non-tuition fees. The cheapest in-state per credit cost for Rutgers is $307, out-of-state is $654. Rutgers raised its tuition BY THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED BY LAW in 2005 and 2008 BEFORE this governor even ran for election. There is no way on this green and verdant earth that even the grandfathered students will get away with paying their old prices.
The upshot: those who say that TESC students would benefit don't see the contradiction in terms. The clientele is completely different. This is the extinction of what used to be a "TESC student": someone who was looking to test out of 80-90% percent of a bachelor's, and finishing one for a grand total of $4000 or $5000. This "merger" terminates that animal in New Jersey. Period. Most of the people who would enroll in the expanded Rutgers online experience after this proposal took place would be people who would spend $1000 to $2000 per CLASS getting a distance degree from a some other name school.
In other words, the notion that , "Hey! I'm going to be able to pursue my degree like I planned for TESC but I'll get the badass Rutgers name when I'm done!" is ludicrous. You better finish BEFORE this happens, or else your tuition will be going up at LEAST 250%. You better enroll BEFORE this happens in order to take advantage any grandfathering that might occur, because if you drop your enrollment even for one semester they WILL tell you have to matriculate under the new rules (they did to their own) and that WILL screw you up BAD. And these are just the broad strokes.
Rutgers is Committed to a Successful and Accountable Intercollegiate Athletics Program
Thomas Edison State College | Comprehensive Tuition Plan
Rutgers | Rutgers Admissions
http://tesc.edu/files/Tuition_and_Fees.pdf
http://studentabc.rutgers.edu/forms/tuit...aduate.pdf
Metro Briefing | New Jersey: New Brunswick: Tuition Increase Approved At Rutgers - New York Times
Rutgers approves 8.5 percent tuition hike | - NJ.com
http://www.psychology.rutgers.edu/undergrad/faqs.pdf
Catalog Navigator : Transfer Students
What "is" TESC? Why is it one of the "Big 3"? Why do almost all people who discuss it on this forum do so? It is because of what makes TESC TESC. It is its no residency requirement. It is the upwards of 80 credits transferable from two-year colleges. It is extensive acceptance of CLEP and DSST. It is the nigh unprecedented acceptance of free FEMA credits. It is all those plus its own low tuition fees. This will all be gone. Period, end of story, gone. Rutgers might get stuck with grandfathering in existing matriculating TESC students, but mark my words, ALL new students will be held to Rutgers standards and Rutgers cost. Minimum 30 credits residency. Maximum two-year transfer of 60 credits. Very, VERY limited CLEP and DSST options. They will never take FEMA.
And those are just the broad strokes. An example of a fine detail: Rutgers is very unforgiving when it comes to its psychology program. Only Intro, two electives and a Quantitative Methods class can be used from a two-year school. That's it. You have to take at LEAST 7 in-class psych courses at Rutgers. Fieldwork, research, internships and HONORS courses do NOT count towards the 7, and that's for their own stuff! They don't even accept on-line courses at all for major or minor, and almost always say no to even in-class winter sessoin classes! http://www.psychology.rutgers.edu/undergrad/faqs.pdf
Oh yeah. And their major is a minimum of 38 credits.
I was enrolled when Rutgers went through its big merger of its constellation of colleges (Livingston, University, etc.) into the Facutly of Arts and Sciences. The argument put forward was that the university had to start saving money any which way it could, so instead of raising tuition AGAIN, they wanted to eliminate duplicated administrative positions. They also wanted to do away with the different rules that Rutgers grads dealt with. You needed to have 120 credits in order to graduate with a bachelor's, unless you were a Cook College student, then you needed 128. Students in Rutgers College "proper" (the original New Brunswick college) needed to complete both a major and a minor, and if one was in the sciences the other had to be in the humanities. No other college required that. University College students had an easier Pass/Fail policy then the other colleges. Yet, we all had Rutgers diplomas, and the adminstration thought that it just created inconsistencies and confusion. I agreed with that move. It just made sense, and the people who were upset with it were individuals whose personal experience was going to get washed away in the process. A legitimate stance to take but everyone's experience has weight, and the proposed streamlining went through.
The differences in specific academic policies between the different colleges at Rutgers at that time were NOTHING compared to the differences between TESC and the Faculty of Arts and Sciences now. It is utterly night and day. I don't see how there is a snowball's chance in hell of Rutgers changing any significant academic requirements. They don't have to. Like I said, TESC has a lot of students but practically zero financial power or any standing in the academic community. TESC is 3 years older than me. Rutgers is 10 years older than the country. The entire full-time administration at TESC I believe is smaller than the number of professors in Rutgers' English department. In short, this would not be a "merger" by a long shot. Rutgersâ athletics budget for FY2008 was approximately $50 million, or less than 3 percent of the universityâs total $1.75 billion budget. The entire state contribution to TESC is currently at $5.6 million. Merger? TESC would be one BUILDING at Rutgers. They would have no clout, leverage or standing with regards to Rutgers. They would simply be a portal through which people would pay Rutgers prices for Rutgers classes.
TESC's comprehensive out-of-state tuition = $6720 first year, $5845 subsequent. In-state = $4695 and $3910 respectively. That's for 36 credits. $109 to $187 per credit, and of course you can transfer and CLEP/DSST credits like crazy. Rutgers is $20,456 for out-of-state and $9546 in-state, and that doesn't include $2340 in non-tuition fees. The cheapest in-state per credit cost for Rutgers is $307, out-of-state is $654. Rutgers raised its tuition BY THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED BY LAW in 2005 and 2008 BEFORE this governor even ran for election. There is no way on this green and verdant earth that even the grandfathered students will get away with paying their old prices.
The upshot: those who say that TESC students would benefit don't see the contradiction in terms. The clientele is completely different. This is the extinction of what used to be a "TESC student": someone who was looking to test out of 80-90% percent of a bachelor's, and finishing one for a grand total of $4000 or $5000. This "merger" terminates that animal in New Jersey. Period. Most of the people who would enroll in the expanded Rutgers online experience after this proposal took place would be people who would spend $1000 to $2000 per CLASS getting a distance degree from a some other name school.
In other words, the notion that , "Hey! I'm going to be able to pursue my degree like I planned for TESC but I'll get the badass Rutgers name when I'm done!" is ludicrous. You better finish BEFORE this happens, or else your tuition will be going up at LEAST 250%. You better enroll BEFORE this happens in order to take advantage any grandfathering that might occur, because if you drop your enrollment even for one semester they WILL tell you have to matriculate under the new rules (they did to their own) and that WILL screw you up BAD. And these are just the broad strokes.
Rutgers is Committed to a Successful and Accountable Intercollegiate Athletics Program
Thomas Edison State College | Comprehensive Tuition Plan
Rutgers | Rutgers Admissions
http://tesc.edu/files/Tuition_and_Fees.pdf
http://studentabc.rutgers.edu/forms/tuit...aduate.pdf
Metro Briefing | New Jersey: New Brunswick: Tuition Increase Approved At Rutgers - New York Times
Rutgers approves 8.5 percent tuition hike | - NJ.com
http://www.psychology.rutgers.edu/undergrad/faqs.pdf
Catalog Navigator : Transfer Students
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