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Gov. Shutdown?
#66
ncpenn Wrote:And why is forcing your will on someone who cannot consent wrong?

Because you said so?
Because society said so?
Because certain (man-made) laws say so?

Why is it wrong for me to walk into my neighbor's house and shoot him just because?

If you give any reason that doesn't ultimately point to a universal truth, you have a non-universal reason. You have a reason, in that case, that isn't necessarily true for everyone. If it's not true for everyone, then how do you know it's true for the person you want to apply it to?

You can't. And that's the problem.
It's wrong because it's the law and laws normally follow societal norms. That's not to say that all laws are moral, but sane people around the world can agree that it's wrong to steal, murder, etc. It doesn't take religion for someone to know that hurting others is wrong. If someone doesn't feel bad after hurting others for no reason, then that person is either a psychopath, sociopath, or mentally ill. Do you really think that atheists think it's okay to murder people for no reason? It is anti-social behavior and humans are social creatures. It is in our best interests to maintain order. Many of the laws we have now have been around long before Judaism even existed. There are also many things in religious texts that people now view as immoral such as slavery, death by stoning, and polygamy.

The societal norm now is that homosexuality is acceptable because it occurs naturally. This not the first time in history this has happened. A lot of past civilizations saw homosexuality as a natural condition. Your concept of absolute truth is based on the premise that a deity even exists. You have no absolute proof that one exists. If one does exist, you don't even know which religious texts, if any, are from this deity. Most of the religious wars have been between people who believe in the same god. They can't even agree on what's His word. At some point, people have to rely on the big brains we have. We have them for a reason.

Do you know what Mormons used to believe was an absolute truth directly from God? They used to believe that black people couldn't go to heaven and were barred from the priesthood. That somehow became unfashionable by 1978. All of the sudden God changed his mind even though the LDS texts still say horrible things about dark-skinned peoples.
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Messages In This Thread
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 10-15-2013, 11:37 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by UptonSinclair - 10-16-2013, 12:06 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by JBtesc - 10-16-2013, 01:27 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ironheadjack - 10-16-2013, 01:53 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Prloko - 10-16-2013, 03:08 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-16-2013, 07:59 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Tedium - 10-16-2013, 08:21 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-16-2013, 08:44 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sklineho - 10-16-2013, 12:00 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sklineho - 10-16-2013, 12:26 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by jmeitrem - 10-16-2013, 01:49 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-16-2013, 03:01 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sklineho - 10-16-2013, 03:47 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sklineho - 10-16-2013, 03:50 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by topdog98 - 10-16-2013, 05:18 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Westerner - 10-16-2013, 07:47 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by UptonSinclair - 10-16-2013, 07:54 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-16-2013, 09:50 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-16-2013, 09:52 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-16-2013, 10:22 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 10-16-2013, 10:54 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Tedium - 10-16-2013, 11:34 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Westerner - 10-16-2013, 11:41 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by NumberSix - 10-16-2013, 11:43 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 10-17-2013, 12:01 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 10-17-2013, 12:09 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 10-17-2013, 12:13 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by bluebooger - 10-17-2013, 01:07 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by UptonSinclair - 10-17-2013, 02:45 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by UptonSinclair - 10-17-2013, 02:54 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Tedium - 10-17-2013, 06:50 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-17-2013, 07:53 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-17-2013, 08:14 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by topdog98 - 10-17-2013, 08:52 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-17-2013, 10:42 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-17-2013, 10:46 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-17-2013, 11:00 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by jmeitrem - 10-17-2013, 11:31 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Tedium - 10-17-2013, 12:24 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-17-2013, 01:06 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-17-2013, 01:49 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Tedium - 10-17-2013, 01:56 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-17-2013, 02:02 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-17-2013, 02:22 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-17-2013, 02:24 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-17-2013, 03:24 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by mrs.b - 10-17-2013, 04:12 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-17-2013, 04:45 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by UptonSinclair - 10-17-2013, 06:40 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-17-2013, 08:30 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-17-2013, 08:41 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by dposborne - 10-18-2013, 05:49 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Tedium - 10-18-2013, 06:32 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sklineho - 10-18-2013, 07:49 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-18-2013, 02:43 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-18-2013, 03:19 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-18-2013, 03:37 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sklineho - 10-19-2013, 09:29 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-19-2013, 09:51 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by EI2HCB - 10-19-2013, 12:11 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-19-2013, 01:58 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-19-2013, 03:25 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-19-2013, 03:31 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-19-2013, 03:40 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by UptonSinclair - 10-19-2013, 08:22 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-19-2013, 08:48 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-20-2013, 12:04 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by ncpenn - 10-20-2013, 12:19 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-20-2013, 08:34 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by EI2HCB - 10-20-2013, 12:33 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by mrs.b - 10-20-2013, 01:04 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-22-2013, 03:36 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Westerner - 10-22-2013, 07:22 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-23-2013, 08:36 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by EI2HCB - 10-23-2013, 08:39 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-23-2013, 10:42 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by jmeitrem - 10-23-2013, 10:51 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by bluebooger - 10-23-2013, 11:14 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-23-2013, 12:19 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-23-2013, 02:03 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by mrs.b - 10-23-2013, 02:42 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 10-23-2013, 02:57 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 10-25-2013, 09:34 AM
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 11-06-2013, 02:43 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 11-06-2013, 02:45 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 11-06-2013, 02:52 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by Jonathan Whatley - 11-06-2013, 04:24 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 11-06-2013, 06:47 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 11-06-2013, 09:19 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 11-07-2013, 02:24 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 11-07-2013, 03:25 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by mrs.b - 11-07-2013, 04:32 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by sanantone - 11-07-2013, 05:41 PM
Gov. Shutdown? - by quasarvs - 11-07-2013, 09:13 PM

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