The Duggars and CollegePlus

[sanantone]

I think this is a good discussion, because it brings in the ethics of proprietary information vs free information, and I know I personally thought long and hard about the ethics of selling what I know. (my book royalty is about $3 per copy. You can do the math for how long it would take ME to earn $3000)

Anyway, Sanatone is right on an important point. I also think >1000 posts validates a person's altruistic motivation. Anyone sticking around that long and posting that often isn't only answering questions, they are contributing. I earned my degree in 2008 from TESC, and Brad Voeller's book was the spark- I tell everyone that (I know personally of 3-4 people who bought his book on my recommendation!) I think you should give credit where credit is due. I've also said here and in my book that I owe my degree to this forum, and I'm not exaggerating, I'm being absolutely serious. I don't know how many times I've replied vs asked a question, but there are plenty of good people here with a ratio of giving > taking. In my book, the first thing I do is direct people here.

In my view, which is just that- mine, I don't think there is a right and wrong answer here, but... I think the distinction is when you give someone tools vs when you make them believe you are the provider of access. I think that this forum, Dr. Bear's book, my book, etc., are good because they give a motivated person the tools and enough direction to get going on the right path. There is no financial incentive behind WHICH path THEY choose, rather the cost is simply in providing the tool (flash cards/web site for IC, printing and shipping costs for a book, etc). CP has added "courses" to their product list, just sayin...

The only issue I have with CP is that they give me the impression that they hold a secret, and by paying $$$$$ you'll get access that other people don't have. I don't like that motive. I like that they are a Christian company, I just don't like that they exploit it to prey on parent's insecurities. It implies that something in the way that THEY usher you through the Sociology CLEP is "more" inline with your doctrine than than the "other" ways out there.... anyway, not intended to be a rant, sorry about that! We get lots of CP people here, I'm wondering if CP is referring or if they are just being resourceful?

I have no problems with books. For less than $30, someone can get most of the basic information they need from the book. Once they are exposed to certain forums and colleges in that book, they can get more advice on that forum or from advisors at the college. I also learned a lot from reading old threads here and that's why I've stuck around so long after completing my degree. I want people to continue to receive the valuable information I received.

I look at it this way. There are countless businesses out there who are doing what we could do ourselves for free. You go to a restaurant, and pay for the privilege of not cooking. You hire a housekeeper once a month and pay for the privilege of someone else cleaning your toilets. You go to the barber's and hire someone to do what you could do yourself with a pair of clippers. That's the beauty of America!! Nowhere is CP claiming to hold a secret, or do something you cannot do. They're giving you the opportunity to decide that your time is worth more than your money.

Honestly, between pursuing this process both for myself (I've completed 66 credits in the last 16 months due overwhelmingly to this forum) and for my daughter (taking her first CLEP in a few weeks), I cannot begin to count the hours I've spent learning about TESC, CLEPs, distance learning, etc etc. If I had the money, YES I would pay someone to do it for me! In a heartbeat! Not to mention if I had 18 kids to figure this out for, YES I would pay someone to do it for me!

We live in a capitalist society. Thank God and then go vent some frustration at some of the other craziness in this world. CP doesn't deserve that.

I don't have a housekeeper and I don't spend $3,000 a year at restaurants. If I did, however, $3,000 worth of food would be worth more than the services provided by CP. I recognize that the Duggars are probably wealthy by this point, but it would not be smart for the average person to spend $3,000 per child if they had a lot of children. Once you go through the process once, it's easy to do it again for the other children. It doesn't take long to look up which tests the next child needs to take even though they should be making some decisions on their own and getting some information passed down to them from their adult siblings.

Some CP students start to rely more on this forum as they get into their UL work, which this forum has more and better feedback on than what CP has.

Another thing is that CP doesn't just help with prepping for tests. They have a Life Purpose Planning segment in which students take time to consider what they want to do with their lives, and then decide their college plan, instead of rushing in and wasting time and money on something that doesn't fulfill God's plan for them. As they are a Christian company, lots of prayer and Bible reading is encouraged. I know that this part helped me a lot in my college decisions and I'm really glad I did it. So CP's not just about telling you how to take your tests. It's not just giving info you can find here for free. It's doing a valuable service to the Christian community.

I think that if you want this Forum to be better known, work to raise awareness, but don't tear down others who are also doing a service.

Churches and non-profit organizations provide spiritual and career guidance for free. Just imagine if you went in for a confessional and the priest required that you pay him $3,000 or any amount of money first. If you're not Catholic, imagine asking your reverend to pray for you and give you advice and he required that you pay a fee first. If CP really wanted to do a service for the Christian community, it would operate as a non-profit and ask for donations with maybe charging a nominal fee. They operate as a for-profit that charges $3,000 for the first year and over $1,000 for subsequent years because they are in it to make a lot of money first and foremost. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make a lot of money as long as you do it ethically. If CP is using this forum and others to provide their $3,000 services, then that makes their operations even more unethical. For all of that money, they should be able to do more than just help you with LL credits. You don't see anything wrong with the fact that you had to come to this free forum for help after paying a company thousands of dollars? That just makes no sense to me. I'm sorry. That's like paying a tax preparer to do your taxes and then having to go to a free one to do what the first one left behind. I would ask for my money back.