Medical school

[cookderosa]

I'll graduate with BS from TESC in Jan/11. GPA, if all is maintained, should be above 3.6/3.7 I have 1 chem w/lab and A&P, w/lab taken preTESC. I was hoping to use my BS degree and the few applicable hard science credits, along with a year of post-BS study from a local public college to finish up three more semesters of Chem, Bio and physics, assuming my GPA in those areas can be kept up. I know what I need fairly well; two org. chem, 1 reg. chem, 1 bio (all w/labs) and two physics. I'll do one of the physics from TESC.
I will def check out the NE university. I prefer online, but know that the chems/bios need labs.
Med school is a distant dream..I started out for it, realized it might be over my head, but now that I'm finishing up, at least want that shot at it. I'm a EMT and I just like this field.

Thanks for that info. Best of luck..keep us updated.

Jack

UNE is online. And welcome to my obsession.
UNE is the only RA med school in the country offering prereqs online.
The down side, no physics.

UNE does some hands on labs, and some virtual. It depends on the class. The Gen bios 1 and 2 are virtual using sim software. I opted not to do them and stick with my Gen bio classes at Ocean County College - simply because I kinda like the hands on stuff. Price for price, they are about the same.

Online sciences are a lot more money than your local community college. A LOT more. For tuition/fees/lab/books/software/etc expect to budget $1500 per online science class (either school). Of course, at a local cc, you can take them for under $500 generally, so you have to think about the added cost and the potential for creating a problem for your application.

*you may want to consider taking biochem when you do orgo 2. Some schools require it.

When I started thinking about med school, I did what any online nerd does, I started researching to death. I (stupidly) found a pre-med forum. In a nutshell, they basically said "If you have EVER taken an online class in ANYTHING forget it.
" So, I (stupidly) thought I'd continue on my original destination of midwifery without trying.

When I started shadowing a midwife practice, she confided in me about how her hands are tied by the license board and she answers to the doctor. She even lost a baby because she wanted the mom to have a c-section and the doctor said no. She went to the doctor's HOUSE stood next to his bed and begged him to come in. He said no. This was her overseeing physician. Her hands were tied. This midwife, who now does not have hospital privileges so she can't deliver babies, was under his supervision. His word was final. Her entire life's work, her practice, depends on her ability to secure another physician who can "get" her hospital privilege. ..... so that's when I realized I needed to look at being a doctor again. I need to be the one (for me) making the decisions, and (for them) who employs and trusts midwives to deliver babies safely.
So, I found another pre-med forum. It's made up of non-traditional students. Ditto what I found on the first forum! :ack: I was very discouraged.

Then it hit me, a brilliant freakin idea. Why not actually contact the med schools and ask point blank about online sciences? I contacted UNE (the school with the science classes) and asked them point blank- and they told me that in no way does method of delivery have anything to do with the application process. ***ooooooo that's good!!!!

So, then, I went to AACOMAS (google it) and started filling out my transcript. This is the process of where you actually get a GPA and enter EVERY class you have ever taken into their data base. Guess what's NOT on the application?
come on, guess???

DING DING DING. Method of delivery. So, you guys know that often a transcript has no identification of "online" anywhere. At that point, I decided to stick with my community college (I know for sure it doesn't say online) and go through the rest of the premed series. When I finish in the spring, I'm enrolling at UNE for the remaining premeds and I'll study for the MCAT this time next year. My online learning won't be obvious, but I won't lie either. If someone pays attention, they'll figure it out. If they ask, I'll say yes. BUT, if I make it all the way to the interview stage where someone ACTUALLY ASKS, then clearly it WAS sufficient. Clearly it DID prepare me, and clearly I WAS able to rock out a good MCAT score. So, if those are the measures THEY have determined to evaluate us all by, and if by THEIR standards I make it to the interview process, then what's the problem and what's the difference?

Like you, I know that those upcoming classes are hard, and I might not make it. I know that. If I end up with a few "C" grades, I'll seriously consider either a re-take or if I end up in utter confusion over the subjects, I may change my mind and decide that it's too hard. BUT, I'm not there yet. Neither are you. So far, it's not too hard. So far, I'm pulling excellent grades. So, that's it. Keep going until you can't!

EMT to doctor is a popular move, it will look good on your application. If you don't work as an EMT now, or are thinking about quitting, consider earning at least ~1000 hours first. That's a good number to shoot for, there is a section for patient care hours.

Lastly, I'm applying only to DO schools. (of course to UNE). I'm applying to 27 of them I have decided not to apply to MD schools because: 1) I like the philosophy and 2) online degree from TESC likely more accepted by DO. That said, it may still be a brick wall getting into DO school, but I doubt it. I have met people who have online undergrad degrees and went to med school. I think that a good MCAT score and a good GPA will get me an interview or two. Is online learning sufficient preparation for med school? We shall find out.

EDIT: regarding premed forums. They're "premeds!!" A premed is (shocker!) NOT a med student anywhere! They are just some student with an opinion. I don't know why it took me so long to consider the source. lol One thing I have learned on IC, is that even people who you THINK might know something, generally don't. And it's ALWAYS best to find out for yourself.

[jackzack87]

UNE is online. And welcome to my obsession.
UNE is the only RA med school in the country offering prereqs online.
The down side, no physics.

UNE does some hands on labs, and some virtual. It depends on the class. The Gen bios 1 and 2 are virtual using sim software. I opted not to do them and stick with my Gen bio classes at Ocean County College - simply because I kinda like the hands on stuff. Price for price, they are about the same.

Online sciences are a lot more money than your local community college. A LOT more. For tuition/fees/lab/books/software/etc expect to budget $1500 per online science class (either school). Of course, at a local cc, you can take them for under $500 generally, so you have to think about the added cost and the potential for creating a problem for your application.

*you may want to consider taking biochem when you do orgo 2. Some schools require it.

When I started thinking about med school, I did what any online nerd does, I started researching to death. I (stupidly) found a pre-med forum. In a nutshell, they basically said "If you have EVER taken an online class in ANYTHING forget it.
" So, I (stupidly) thought I'd continue on my original destination of midwifery without trying.

When I started shadowing a midwife practice, she confided in me about how her hands are tied by the license board and she answers to the doctor. She even lost a baby because she wanted the mom to have a c-section and the doctor said no. She went to the doctor's HOUSE stood next to his bed and begged him to come in. He said no. This was her overseeing physician. Her hands were tied. This midwife, who now does not have hospital privileges so she can't deliver babies, was under his supervision. His word was final. Her entire life's work, her practice, depends on her ability to secure another physician who can "get" her hospital privilege. ..... so that's when I realized I needed to look at being a doctor again. I need to be the one (for me) making the decisions, and (for them) who employs and trusts midwives to deliver babies safely.
So, I found another pre-med forum. It's made up of non-traditional students. Ditto what I found on the first forum! :ack: I was very discouraged.

Then it hit me, a brilliant freakin idea. Why not actually contact the med schools and ask point blank about online sciences? I contacted UNE (the school with the science classes) and asked them point blank- and they told me that in no way does method of delivery have anything to do with the application process. ***ooooooo that's good!!!!

So, then, I went to AACOMAS (google it) and started filling out my transcript. This is the process of where you actually get a GPA and enter EVERY class you have ever taken into their data base. Guess what's NOT on the application?
come on, guess???

DING DING DING. Method of delivery. So, you guys know that often a transcript has no identification of "online" anywhere. At that point, I decided to stick with my community college (I know for sure it doesn't say online) and go through the rest of the premed series. When I finish in the spring, I'm enrolling at UNE for the remaining premeds and I'll study for the MCAT this time next year. My online learning won't be obvious, but I won't lie either. If someone pays attention, they'll figure it out. If they ask, I'll say yes. BUT, if I make it all the way to the interview stage where someone ACTUALLY ASKS, then clearly it WAS sufficient. Clearly it DID prepare me, and clearly I WAS able to rock out a good MCAT score. So, if those are the measures THEY have determined to evaluate us all by, and if by THEIR standards I make it to the interview process, then what's the problem and what's the difference?

Like you, I know that those upcoming classes are hard, and I might not make it. I know that. If I end up with a few "C" grades, I'll seriously consider either a re-take or if I end up in utter confusion over the subjects, I may change my mind and decide that it's too hard. BUT, I'm not there yet. Neither are you. So far, it's not too hard. So far, I'm pulling excellent grades. So, that's it. Keep going until you can't!

EMT to doctor is a popular move, it will look good on your application. If you don't work as an EMT now, or are thinking about quitting, consider earning at least ~1000 hours first. That's a good number to shoot for, there is a section for patient care hours.

Lastly, I'm applying only to DO schools. (of course to UNE). I'm applying to 27 of them I have decided not to apply to MD schools because: 1) I like the philosophy and 2) online degree from TESC likely more accepted by DO. That said, it may still be a brick wall getting into DO school, but I doubt it. I have met people who have online undergrad degrees and went to med school. I think that a good MCAT score and a good GPA will get me an interview or two. Is online learning sufficient preparation for med school? We shall find out.

EDIT: regarding premed forums. They're "premeds!!" A premed is (shocker!) NOT a med student anywhere! They are just some student with an opinion. I don't know why it took me so long to consider the source. lol One thing I have learned on IC, is that even people who you THINK might know something, generally don't. And it's ALWAYS best to find out for yourself.

Very cool. Agreed, online classes are the way to go. I just find it better for me if I have more freedom and flexibility...I just perform better. And because I've taken 80+ credits before TESC, my GPA is based on 12, 300+400 level classes alone. I don't understand why it is sometimes looked down on to have an online degree...I love to rant on this...I'll stop before I start.

Question: will having those comm. college credits hurt you (as opposed to credits from a public college)? I have been told (by my personal doctor, in a conversation about med school) that the courses are viewed as less favorable. Tuition at the local university is just under 5K a year, or about 30 credits, which is manageable. I think I'll go with them on campus; its financially better for me.

What about labs? I believe you'll need labs(at least for med school - D.O. may not apply, IDK.
I understand what you mean about the need to be in "power"...unfortunatly, red tape has a hand in the med field; I dropped out of the whole PA/NP scene only because I didn't want to hit the ceiling in my field and have to take orders. I couldn't be a nurse, at least not for long. I actually work as a medical assistant not...EMT get paid dirt.

I'm interested in the D.O. program also I like the holistic nature of it, and it focuses on natural healing rather than medication and treatment. I'll look into it more...thank you for your insight and tips.

[cookderosa]

Question: will having those comm. college credits hurt you (as opposed to credits from a public college)? I have been told (by my personal doctor, in a conversation about med school) that the courses are viewed as less favorable. Tuition at the local university is just under 5K a year, or about 30 credits, which is manageable. I think I'll go with them on campus; its financially better for me.
For MD, I believe it is commonly considered better to do all prereqs at a 4 year school vs CC. For DO, that isn't generally the case.

What about labs? I believe you'll need labs(at least for med school - D.O. may not apply, IDK.
Yes, all my sciences have labs and specifically for "science majors" any non-labs or non-science major courses won't count.

I understand what you mean about the need to be in "power"...unfortunatly, red tape has a hand in the med field; I dropped out of the whole PA/NP scene only because I didn't want to hit the ceiling in my field and have to take orders. I couldn't be a nurse, at least not for long. I actually work as a medical assistant not...EMT get paid dirt.
HECK YES. I'm right there with you. If I end up not accepted to med school, I'll become a midwife. It's not that "I" consider NPs a poorer choice, but the industry does. I'm not really focused on it right now, but I think I'd lean toward one of the direct entry MSN-NP programs if it comes to that. I declined all of my admissions for the local RN programs, I just can't do it unless I have to.


I'm interested in the D.O. program also I like the holistic nature of it, and it focuses on natural healing rather than medication and treatment. I'll look into it more...thank you for your insight and tips.
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Thank you too! Good luck to you, I'd love to keep in contact about it as we both go down this path. I'd like to be able to help others here who might be looking at one of the non-traditional uses for their degree. *ha ha where else would you call a medical degree non-traditional but here? But, the big 3 serve a purpose, I'm curious as to if/how to use them outside of a "check the box" scenario. [/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]

[NAP]

I am excited for both of you! I have enjoyed reading about your goal of medical school. We'll be here to cheer you on and I'm looking forward to following your progress.

.....I have met people who have online undergrad degrees and went to med school. .....

I have been curious about this, too, in terms of the Big Three. I have seen through Excelsior's Live & Learn Magazine that graduates have completed medical school (type unknown). I have wondered how non-traditional their undergrad degrees can be to reach this goal. It would be interesting to find out.

(From reading another thread, if taking a science course at a community college is considered "non-traditional", then there are a lot of truly non-traditional routes to open in the future.)

[jackzack87]

I am excited for both of you! I have enjoyed reading about your goal of medical school. We'll be here to cheer you on and I'm looking forward to following your progress.



I have been curious about this, too, in terms of the Big Three. I have seen through Excelsior's Live & Learn Magazine that graduates have completed medical school (type unknown). I have wondered how non-traditional their undergrad degrees can be to reach this goal. It would be interesting to find out.

(From reading another thread, if taking a science course at a community college is considered "non-traditional", then there are a lot of truly non-traditional routes to open in the future.)

Thanks; I'm curious to see if it can be done as well...and I don't see why not. You've got to have goals, and although I don't know how it will go in the end, failing to get in wouldn't be half as bad as giving up before you start. Long live nontraditional college!

[cookderosa]

I am excited for both of you! I have enjoyed reading about your goal of medical school. We'll be here to cheer you on and I'm looking forward to following your progress.



I have been curious about this, too, in terms of the Big Three. I have seen through Excelsior's Live & Learn Magazine that graduates have completed medical school (type unknown). I have wondered how non-traditional their undergrad degrees can be to reach this goal. It would be interesting to find out.

(From reading another thread, if taking a science course at a community college is considered "non-traditional", then there are a lot of truly non-traditional routes to open in the future.)

>>

The thing to know, is that a degree from one of the big 3 in-and-of-itself isn't the problem. The problem, is a combination of online stigma (which is true even if you attend your local university's online classes) and the premed courses being from a 2 year vs 4 year school. Let's remember, that the big 3 are all 4 year schools.....but, it's where you get your sciences that is a big deal. MANY MANY MANY people do what's called "independent" which is when you complete the sequence outside of a traditional premed program (with a premed advisor and a premed committee that will write your admissions letter- a requirement btw, some schools allow two doctorate-prepared science teachers to write a letter in its place, but that's hard to do in an online setting-I have found 1 teacher who will do this for me, I still need a second because my other teachers all have master's degrees).

If I were to have orchestrated this perfectly, without regard to time or money, I might have done a few things differently (and a few things the same)

1. I would have CLEPped all my gen eds and none of my major. (2 summers)
2. I would have taken all of my premed sciences in person at a local 4 year university as a non-enrolled student gathering letters along the way. (2 years- fall/spring, fall/spring)
3. I would have sent my sciences and CLEPs to TESC degree. *that overflows into free electives in my example.
4. I would have taken the remaining courses online through TESC. (1-2 semesters)
5. I would major in any of the behavioral sciences (which I did anyway).

In this scenario, a student only needs 120 credits. 60 of those via CLEP, 32 face to face, and about 30 online. Also, this can be done in 2 1/2 years. Pretty speedy for premed. I'm going to end up with something like 233 credits. milelol:

The thing about premed, is that you need 4 semesters to complete the 16 credit chemistry sequence. So, you either do it inside a 4 year degree *thus requiring 4 years, or you do it as what's called "post-bac" in which you do it after your 4 year degree- this usually takes people 6 years! Of course, cutting time and money off a bachelor's degree is the function of this forum, so it can be done. I think my outline above would mesh well into a 2 1/2 year plan. It would also be considerably cheaper than doing an actual post-bac certificate ($35K!) or doing an entire science degree at a university ($$$$$).

Also, I would only do this as someone over about age 30 and/or with children. A single person, especially a young person, IMO needs to do this the traditional way.

LASTLY, I'm in progress, so you may not want to take my advice just yet

[dawrhino]

I am in the same boat here - LPN was doing EC RN but just switched to BA , I did all prereqs in CC in 1 year , took MCAT last January , scored 27 , and now will try to do some MA in Science and will try to apply MD and DO , I also applied to Polish medical school 50 states accepted - and I was accepted but everybody around was telling me that I should try here - I will lose one year but if I do not get here next year I will go to Europe without regrets.

I am going to repeat my MCAT because last time I just went there to see how it looks without much physics and orgo, with just testing skills ( cleps and dantes helped ) - now I am going do my best.\

Did U find DO to shadow?? I just started to look for one because most school requires LOR from one

[jackzack87]

Not to dig up a 4-month old thread, but I've not been on here for months - I've switched to SDN after graduating.

How did you do all prereqs in 1 year? As I understand, you have to take Chem 1, 2 and Orgo 1,2 in that order, taking 4 semesters.

27 MCAT isn't shabby - way to go

On a personal note, if anyone is interested, I am itching for August 29th for my fall semester to start at University at Buffalo, where the first of my three necessary premed semesters starts. Hello Biology & Physics. I'm also now a volly firefighter and EMT at the local fire department, where I get hands-on EMT fun nearly everyday and am shadowing a DO at the local hospital. I have 3 M.D.s, 2 D.O., 1 professor and the fire chief willing to give me LORs, and will likely pick up another prof. over the next couple semesters. With any fortune I will take the MCAT in the spring of '13 and have my goals set on LECOM erie (D.O school).
With grades north of B's and a MCAT in the high 20's, low 30's, I believe I can become a TESC grad to make it into the arena.

I am in the same boat here - LPN was doing EC RN but just switched to BA , I did all prereqs in CC in 1 year , took MCAT last January , scored 27 , and now will try to do some MA in Science and will try to apply MD and DO , I also applied to Polish medical school 50 states accepted - and I was accepted but everybody around was telling me that I should try here - I will lose one year but if I do not get here next year I will go to Europe without regrets.

I am going to repeat my MCAT because last time I just went there to see how it looks without much physics and orgo, with just testing skills ( cleps and dantes helped ) - now I am going do my best.\

Did U find DO to shadow?? I just started to look for one because most school requires LOR from one

[durandtheman]

Just wanted to chime in, everyone here has great insight.

Something that always amused me, I used to live in a "college town" in high school and after my 1st stint in college.

It was too funny seeing young kids strutting around saying "Oh, I'm Pre-Med" or "Oh, I'm Pre-Law." I responded back saying "Oh? I'm Pre-President of the United States!"

Everybody can be Pre-Med/Pre anything. All the "PRE" programs is have a course plan for you to do your best when it comes to taking the MCAT. Anyone can take the MCAT or LSAT, and even get into law school/med school. Taking the 10 Biology / Chem/O Chem/A&P helps you learn everything you need to know on top of studying for the MCAT.

Being in a Pre-Med program doesn't guarantee anything, and I'm sure by now that only a small percentage actually is in Med. School. My sister is actually taking her final test in Med School to begin applying to residency, and she has worked her butt of to earn the respect. She has worked at free clinics, had long 72hr shifts in hospitals, made friends with many doctors, connections is a MUST! Many people go into those programs thinking they deserve to get someplace. Put in the work and you'll be respected much higher than anyone who "deserves" to be there.

Just my 2 cents.

[cookderosa]

I am in the same boat here - LPN was doing EC RN but just switched to BA , I did all prereqs in CC in 1 year , took MCAT last January , scored 27 , and now will try to do some MA in Science and will try to apply MD and DO , I also applied to Polish medical school 50 states accepted - and I was accepted but everybody around was telling me that I should try here - I will lose one year but if I do not get here next year I will go to Europe without regrets.

I am going to repeat my MCAT because last time I just went there to see how it looks without much physics and orgo, with just testing skills ( cleps and dantes helped ) - now I am going do my best.\

Did U find DO to shadow?? I just started to look for one because most school requires LOR from one

Well, a lot has happened in the year since I posted this.
First, I wouldn't hesitate to go outside the country if I was sure I could do a US residency. I believe there is a green book that you can use to see if certain rotations are approved. And it's state-specific, but I'm not as educated in the process as folks over at the SDN forum simply because that wasn't my path. (you'll need thick skin over there, and a good pair of blinders won't hurt)

27 MCAT is very good, but have you considered a retake? A higher score might help you secure a US school. There are Kaplan courses you can take (even online) that cost about a thousand bucks, but might bring you up 3 points...3 points puts you in a whole 'nuther class of applicants. You didn't mention your GPA, but if your GPA is very good, and your science GPA is excellent, I'd still apply DO schools with a 27.

I have 3 DOs that I shadowed, but, I knew them ahead of this process. 2 are OB-GYNs that I have done doula work for, and one is a Family Practice that was "my" client when his wife had a baby. But, I believe cold calls are fine. I'd make a list of local DOs in your area and find out where they went to school. If any of them are alum from schools on your list, use that as your in. "Dear Doc X, I see you graduated from LECOM, and that school is at the top of my list. Would I be able to schedule a Shadow experience with you within the next month or two?" And do that for about 3-4. Do you have science letters of rec? If not, do more shadows and use those.

Finally, I decided not to pursue a career change, and am staying with my current career. I have, however, come up with an exciting way to take my career to the next level and I'm happy with that. The reasons I decided not to go forward are specific to my life, and nothing to do with the process. I'd bet anyone a nickle that I could have used my TESC degree and online prereqs to get into a USA DO school (and maybe my state MD school). A solid MCAT, high GPA, high sGPA, and good letters (plus an interesting story) are essential- and I sincerely believe that many people who apply simply are not qualified candidates (low GPA, low sGPA, low MCAT, etc) and skew the stats. Seriously, you'll hear people with a 3.0 applying, and it's just not going to happen without a rock star application in other ways.

I wish you tons of good fortune, and I'd love to hear about your progress as you apply. Which cycle are you applying?