GRE Subject Tests

[perrik]

If you do well on the subject test but DON'T get all 33 credits for the major your only recourse will probably be to retake it. This is because, unlike a major like english, you can't take one or two freshman level classes and wind up clearing the pre-reqs for the lion's share of the available upper level courses. If you fall, say, six upper level courses short of the major according to Excelsior, you won't be able to just hop on line and find a couple courses to take because I don't know of ANY schools other than Excelsior and COSC that will give you actual course credit for taking the GRE. So if you were a couple courses short, even if you could find, say, a "Topology 2" class online, it would be highly unlikely that you would be allowed to take it since you don't have anywhere close to the necessary pre-reqs for it reflected in actual courses on your transcripts.

That being said, I don't know for sure how Excelsior would put it on their transcript. If Excelsior just lists you as having "xx-LL credits, yy-UL credits" than even their transcript won't help you with another school. If Excelsior actual lists your credits as clearing certain requirements, "Calc 1, Linear Algebra 2, etc." then maybe you could get another school to recognize it. Personally, I think it is the former, so you would be s.o.l. So just know that math is kinda' "all-or-nothing" for Excelsior's major, unlike english or psych where you can take a couple lower level courses, or even test out of them with CLEP/DSST/ECE/TECEP/Ohio, and clear the pre-reqs for nearly any remaining courses you need to top-off your credits after the GRE.

I have no idea how auditing or taking classes as a non-matriculated visiting student would work. Somebody else would need to comment on that.

FYI, you can't clear the remaining English credits via freshman classes, either! Excelsior lists the major requirements in their Guidelines publications in sequence, meaning that if you fall short by two classes worth of credit, you'll need to fulfill the last two requirements on the list. I came up one notch short of qualifying for 30 credits on the Lit in English exam, so to complete the major I would have had to take a class from the final category in the sequence (single author study). Finding a single-author class that wasn't Shakespeare was difficult (technically EC shouldn't accept a Shakespeare class for that credit anyway, as a Shakespeare class is part of the normal sequence, but they do) and I decided to just switch to liberal studies to avoid the expense and extra time.

For mathematics, the upper-level sequence is two analysis courses, then two UL algebra courses, then one applied math course in areas like discrete math or graph theory, and finally one applied math course in areas like numerical analysis or mathematical modeling. If you score high enough to get 27 credits, you would be required to take the two applied math courses to finish the major.

And as you point out, it might be tough to register for those UL credits elsewhere if they want proof that you meet the pre-reqs. On the Excelsior transcript, the GRE-based credits are recorded as lumps of pass credit, with X number of lower-level and Y number of upper-level. It's not broken out into what classes in the sequence were considered fulfilled by the score.

[Kaz]

FYI, you can't clear the remaining English credits via freshman classes, either! Excelsior lists the major requirements in their Guidelines publications in sequence, meaning that if you fall short by two classes worth of credit, you'll need to fulfill the last two requirements on the list. I came up one notch short of qualifying for 30 credits on the Lit in English exam, so to complete the major I would have had to take a class from the final category in the sequence (single author study). Finding a single-author class that wasn't Shakespeare was difficult (technically EC shouldn't accept a Shakespeare class for that credit anyway, as a Shakespeare class is part of the normal sequence, but they do) and I decided to just switch to liberal studies to avoid the expense and extra time.

Cool. What I meant to say with the English, is that usually taking "101 & 102" is all the pre-reqs you'll need in order to take the upper level classes you'd need to top off that GRE. Not that after you took the English GRE, you could take 101 & 102 and be finished. I was trying to illustrate the contrast to math, where if you were a couple classes short there, the classes you would need to take to top that off have many more pre-reqs.

For mathematics, the upper-level sequence is two analysis courses, then two UL algebra courses, then one applied math course in areas like discrete math or graph theory, and finally one applied math course in areas like numerical analysis or mathematical modeling. If you score high enough to get 27 credits, you would be required to take the two applied math courses to finish the major.

And as you point out, it might be tough to register for those UL credits elsewhere if they want proof that you meet the pre-reqs. On the Excelsior transcript, the GRE-based credits are recorded as lumps of pass credit, with X number of lower-level and Y number of upper-level. It's not broken out into what classes in the sequence were considered fulfilled by the score.

Interesting, so Excelsior has them in that order? If you come up 3 credits short after taking the GRE you have to fulfill it with something from Subgroup 2, Section C? Interesting. A lot of their examples of applied math are easier to pre-req at my school than Section A. I wonder, since I already have Subgroup 2 in Section C fulfilled, I could take the GRE, miss the top 3 credits and be finished?! :eek:

[perrik]

Cool. What I meant to say with the English, is that usually taking "101 & 102" is all the pre-reqs you'll need in order to take the upper level classes you'd need to top off that GRE. Not that after you took the English GRE, you could take 101 & 102 and be finished. I was trying to illustrate the contrast to math, where if you were a couple classes short there, the classes you would need to take to top that off have many more pre-reqs.

That's the difference between an art and a science.

Interesting, so Excelsior has them in that order? If you come up 3 credits short after taking the GRE you have to fulfill it with something from Subgroup 2, Section C? Interesting. A lot of their examples of applied math are easier to pre-req at my school than Section A. I wonder, since I already have Subgroup 2 in Section C fulfilled, I could take the GRE, miss the top 3 credits and be finished?! :eek:

Good question, and I think that's how it would work. Only an advisor could tell you for sure, and of course they won't tell you anything until you enroll!

[alissaroot]

Cool. What I meant to say with the English, is that usually taking "101 & 102" is all the pre-reqs you'll need in order to take the upper level classes you'd need to top off that GRE. Not that after you took the English GRE, you could take 101 & 102 and be finished. I was trying to illustrate the contrast to math, where if you were a couple classes short there, the classes you would need to take to top that off have many more pre-reqs.

Some upper level English courses I have looked at also require an introductory Literary Theory & Criticism class in addition to (or instead of) two semesters of English Composition. But you do make a good point, that if anyone out there is considering the GRE in Mathematics (and Physics, Chemistry, Biochemistry, etc) they should be aware that if they fall short of the 80th percentile they will have a harder time getting those last few credits. For the science ones, they would also need to make an effort to find courses with labs. I think this is why the GRE Literature and the GRE Psychology are a bit more popular among those who are using them for credit.

Interesting, so Excelsior has them in that order? If you come up 3 credits short after taking the GRE you have to fulfill it with something from Subgroup 2, Section C? Interesting. A lot of their examples of applied math are easier to pre-req at my school than Section A. I wonder, since I already have Subgroup 2 in Section C fulfilled, I could take the GRE, miss the top 3 credits and be finished?! :eek:

It's possible...but this is a question for an adviser. And you probably won't get a definitive answer until you have enrolled and paid the fees and have an adviser in your area. Back on page 2-3 of this thread I did a breakdown of the credits for the GRE Literature and there is a similar example in this thread for GRE Comp. Sci. You could go to EC's Publications page and get at least a general idea of how the credits would line up from the GRE using the GRE Lit & Comp Sci posts as examples/templates.

[Old Rusty Pipe]

Add California Coast University to the list of colleges that accept GRE Subject tests for undergrad credit. It should be noted that Cal Coast is nationally accredited vs regionally. Just an FYI for those whom the difference matters.

California Coast University - FAQs

"Does CCU accept GRADUATE RECORD EXAMINATION ADVANCED SUBJECT TESTS (GRE) credit?

CCU accepts earned credit from the Graduate Record Examination (GRE) Advanced Subject Tests. GRE Advanced Subject Tests are examinations offered in eight fields of study. The GRE also offers general aptitude tests, which are not translatable to credit. The GRE Advanced Subject Test is designed to assess learning normally expected in a college major, so depending on your score on an exam, you may be eligible for a certain amount of credit. Subjects include Biochemistry, Cell and Molecular Biology, Biology, Chemistry, Computer Science, Literature in English, Mathematics, Physics, and Psychology."

[NAP]

Hi Kaz!

Thank you so much for all of your excellent advice and resource recommendations! I really appreciate having it come from someone who is where I want to be, even though I have to take a different route.

My opinion about self-studying math is that the subject lends itself very well to that goal, as long as you have the presonality to grind away for hours and hours, week after week on ever-more-difficult math problems !

I am glad that you think this will be a good subject for independent studying. I suspect I have found a kindred spirit. I would prefer to spend my time doing math problems rather than any other type of homework. I have always liked the level of math that I was currently learning, but I have always wondered if I will ever reach a level of math that I can’t comprehend. I hope not.

I understand your concerns about getting the higher levels of math, if needed. The math major is my choice and not required for the graduate program that I would like to attend. I should be able to make a decision about going for high level math courses when I get to that point.

Your visiting student idea may be an option, too. I thought I read about this in Excelsior’s policies, but I have not been able to find it again. If Excelsior approves the course needed and feels that the prerequisites have been met through the GRE, maybe they could give me a letter that states this and that I would be able to finish Excelsior’s major requirements, if the other school would allow me to take this course.

I was happy to read that you have the possibility of finishing your math major through Excelsior!

Thank you again for all of your help!

MaieJaie and Old Rusty Pipe – Thank you for adding these schools to the GRE list. I will check both for higher level math courses.

[Kaz]

Well, I finally pulled the trigger. I'm applyin' to Excelsior. All my transcript requests went out this weekend and I registered for the GRE... in psych . So much for all that math talk ! j/k...

More on topic, I reread this thread and I would wager that perrik is right. Falling short of completely testing out of a math major probably reults in having the "topmost" electives "peel off the top": you lose a Section 2C elective, then a B or A to go with that C, then one of all three, etc. That would agree with Alissa's information about the Literature subject test. JLA_8's info about the computer science subject test didn't jive perfectly with that, but it did have the first couple of "misses" off the top being made up by upper level electives, which does jive. Even though I'm not taking the math GRE I'll see if I can get a detailed breakdown like Alissa and JLA_8 got once my application and transcripts are processed. And I fork over my $, the all important part to getting answers .

The not-so-jived part I alluded to, is how the comp sci's bottom tier is made up of electives, then the middle has core requirements, and finally back to electives for the top scores. The Lit test seems to progress from core requirements up through electives in a very linear fashion. Interesting. I wonder if this is because the Lit major is handled by the School of Liberal Arts and any computer major is handled by the School of Business & Technology?

Come to think of it, does the comp sci GRE let you completely test out of a computer degree at EC? Reading through the catalog you need a total of 48 credits to fulfill the Technology Component: 24 core and 24 elective. And the core has a bunch of electronics course requirements, not computer science per se. Does maxing out the comp sci GRE still leave one a slew of credits short of completing the major? Or am I wrong in the Liberal Arts vs. Tech School thing above, and this is the School of Liberal Arts' breakdown of the comp sci GRE? They don't offer a comp sci major, but could you use this for their Area of Focus option? I don't think so but I don't have any personal insight on this.

Here are the earlier posts I'm referencing above:

"The GRE Computer Science exam can award credit,

however it will all be
score specific.

Here is the break-down for the Computer Science GRE:

685 score: 3 LL credits satisfying the Intro to Computers ( IT
elective)
700 score: 6 LL credits satisfying above plus High Level Language (
IT elective)
715 score: 9 LL credits satisfying above plus a second High Level
Language ( IT elective)
730 score: 12 LL credits satisfying above plus Discrete Math (math
requirement)
745 score: 12 LL credits, 3 UL credits satisfying above plus Data
Structures (one of the Object Oriented Software concentration core)
760 score: 12 LL credits, 6 UL credits satisfying above plus
Computer Architecture ( core requirement)
770 score: 12 LL credits, 9 UL credits satisfying above plus
Operating Systems (core requirement)
780 score: 12 LL credits, 12 UL credits satisfying above plus UL
technical elective
810 or higher: 12 LL credits and 18 UL credits."

Greetings, Alissa -

Thank you for your Message.

The number of credits you receive for the "Literature in English" GRE depends on your score. The maximum is a score of 630 and higher and awards 12 Lower Level credits and 18 Upper Level credits for a total of 30 (major requirements would be fulfilled). The lowest score accepted 500 and awards 3 Lower Level credits. All upper level courses/exams taken after the GRE do not duplicate GRE credit.

If you receive 27 credits for the Lit. in Engl. GRE you will need to take a Major Author (singular) - area IIC course, pre-20th century and Research and Writing in the Major; if you receive 24 credits, you would need to take a IIC course and either a IIA (Literary Period/Movement or IIB (Literary Genre/Form) course - one of the 2 courses would have to be pre-20th century and Research and Writing in the Major; if you receive 21 credits, you would need to take one IIA, IIB and IIC course each - one of the 3 courses would have to be pre-20th century and Research and Writing in the Major. Where more credits are needed, we can then look at more coursework from areas II and/or III and Research and Writing in the Major.

I hope this helps, but please let us know if you have additional questions. Best wishes!

Sincerely, Tamara R. Garrison, Academic Adviser



Ah, to explain the previous post a bit for anyone who has not yet checked out the Publications page at Excelsior. If you are considering a Literature in English major at Excelsior, definitely start a free MyEC account and go to the Publications page. There you can see what she is saying when she says "Area IIA, IIB, IIC" and so forth. Here's an example so you can get a better idea of what she means, I would have put it together last night but I had to hurry off to work:

Excelsior GRE Literature in English Credit distribution

Raw Score~Scaled Score~Percentile~Credits at Excelsior + what you will NEED in addition to this score on the GRE---------------

~102-106------- 500----- 36%ile------ 3LL
~107-110------- 510----- 39%ile------ 3LL
~111-113------- 520----- 43%ile------ 6LL
~114-116------- 530----- 47%ile------ 9LL
~117-119------- 540----- 50%ile------ 12LL
~120-122------- 550----- 54%ile------ 12LL
~123-125------- 560----- 58%ile------ 12LL & 3UL
~126-128------- 570----- 62%ile------ 12LL & 6UL
~129-132------- 580----- 65%ile------ 12LL & 9UL
~133-135------- 590----- 68%ile------ 12LL & 9UL + Literary genre or forms,UL i.e.Evolution of Drama, Studies in the Novel, etc.
~136-140------- 600----- 72%ile------ 12LL & 12UL + Literary period or movement,UL i.e. Victorian Age, Enlightenment, Naturalism
~141-143------- 610----- 75%ile------ 12LL & 15UL
~144-146------- 620----- 78%ile------ 12LL & 15UL + Singular author UL & Research & Writing in the Major course needed
~147-149------- 630----- 81%ile------ 12LL & 18UL----Everything for the major fulfilled!

The lower level credits, which she did not discuss (because she knows I will score high! lol) are duplicated by the CLEP American Lit., English Lit, and 3 of the 6 credits for CLEP Humanities. You will also need everything above the score. Say if you score at the 68th percentile, you will need the literary genre, literary period, singular author, and research & writing in the major. I hope that this makes sense, it is a bit confusing at first. Checking out the publications page will help if this is not clear.

This little chart is just an example, the score distribution on the test you take might be very different.
Good luck everyone!

[MaieJaie]

Come to think of it, does the comp sci GRE let you completely test out of a computer degree at EC? Reading through the catalog you need a total of 48 credits to fulfill the Technology Component: 24 core and 24 elective. And the core has a bunch of electronics course requirements, not computer science per se. Does maxing out the comp sci GRE still leave one a slew of credits short of completing the major? Or am I wrong in the Liberal Arts vs. Tech School thing above, and this is the School of Liberal Arts' breakdown of the comp sci GRE? They don't offer a comp sci major, but could you use this for their Area of Focus option? I don't think so but I don't have any personal insight on this.

I'm not certain about how the programs work for the School of Business & Technology, but here's the rundown for Computer Science as an Area of Focus in EC's School of Liberal Arts:


"All the undergraduate liberal arts degree programs allow the flexibility uf using applied professional credits to meet degree requirements beyond the required credits in arts and sciences and general education. Applied professional...are disciplines such as agriculture, architecture, business computer science..."
--EC School of Liberal Arts Catalog, current edition, page 15.

Computer science courses are considered applied professional credits and can be used toward the credits for any of the degrees.


"The requirement for an area of focus at the baccalaureate level is 21 credits, of which 6 must be upper level. All credits must be in a single discipline. Students in the Bachelor of Arts degree program are restricted to areas of focus in arts and sciences (e.g., foreign language, political science), whereas Bachelor of Science degree program areas of focus could come from either arts and sciences or applied professional (e.g., health, education)."
--EC School of Liberal Arts Catalog, current edition, pages 22-23.

So yes, you can have an Area of Focus in Computer Science for EC's School of Liberal Arts, but only if the degree is a Bachelor of Science and not a Bachelor of Arts. Oh, and for those who are curious, the Associate degrees work the same way...the Associate of Science can have an Area of Focus in an Applied Professional subject, but the Associate of Arts cannot. For the Associate degrees, only 15 credits are needed and they can all be lower level. So the AS can have an Area of Focus in Computer Science but the AA cannot.

I hope this helps!

[NAP]

Congratulations Kaz for taking the plunge and applying to Excelsior College! Will you try to finish the math major? I agree with MaieJaie that you should be able to get an Area of Focus by using another GRE. (I don't think they will give more than 30 credits for the Computer Science GRE toward that other degree.)

Even though I'm not taking the math GRE I'll see if I can get a detailed breakdown like Alissa and JLA_8 got once my application and transcripts are processed. And I fork over my $, the all important part to getting answers .

I am looking forward to this post. I will appreciate having the information on exactly how the Math GRE breaks down.

[Kaz]

Took the Pscyh subject test this past weekend. Definitely didn't get the 30 credits needed to one-shot my Excelsior major but I knew that going into it. It was actually the plan from the get-go, as I had B&M classes to attend for my "real" major (math) and didn't think going from scratch to 30 credits in another field was remotely possible in two months time.

They really do try to put the fear of gawd in you about sharing info about the test, but I feel comfortable talking about it as long as I don't mention specific questions. So:

• The Princeton Review "Cracking" book is not enough all by itself. That should be common sense but I'm going on record PROMISING you it isn't.

• There was a lot more statistics and reasearch design questions then I expected. Can't tell if that was just the "impression" I was left with or if they actually exceeded the parameters mentioned in "Cracking", but I am definitely staying more on top of those two for my April retest.
  

• I was pretty confident in my anatomy and physiology, but there were some parts of anatomy referenced on the test that are simply absent from the "Cracking" book.

• Read the administrative instructions from ETS before going! I had no surprises or problems, but some people were genuinely surprised that they couldn't eat or drink during the test, that they couldn't use mechanical pencils, etc. Hate to be jerk but "Come on people!" This is such a giant test for most people as it isn't about Excelsior credits but getting into grad school, and they don't even read the rules! I even adhered to the "light layers" clothing recommendation and that even helped out a bunch because our room was quite cold to start with but slowly warmed up. Some people were either too hot or too cold most of the time. And a couple kids were very lucky that we started late because they walked in after the "official" start time but were still allowed to take the test. Maybe I'm just getting old but jeez

• It is my opinion that this avenue is awesome for particular kinds of learners/students and not so great for everyone else. I've always been weak in consistently churning out "x amount" of productivity on a weekly basis in school but strong in testing (the bigger and longer the exam the better) and simply understanding what we are "really doing" in class. As such, this option plays to my strengths and avoids my weaknesses. I would caution against GRE'ing your way through Excelsior/COSC if you:
  
  1. have test anxiety
     
  2. aren't strong in your multiple choice/recall memory skills
     
  3. prefer essays in order to get your point across. I say this because I've known many people who shine when they have a "conversational" opportunity through which to explain themselves but who struggle when they are simply given a Scantron sheet and a clock. Just very different thinking styles at work. Of course, there are people who are great at both, and they would do fine using this avenue IMHO.
     

I called Excelsior to find out in advance what their logic/flowchart is for someone who falls somewhere in the middle of the credits awarded from the GRE, i.e. if I wind up with 12 LL and 6 UL which specific pscyh classes do I need to take in order to complete the major? They straight-up told me that I would only be able to work that out with an advisor after I enrolled. Merely applying isn't enough. I think that's ok. Once I get the official blessed low-down I will post it in this thread.

I need to thank Alissa! Her outline for this beast is extensive, logical and above-all-else very helpful. Since I leaned on the "Cracking" book so much I only scratched the surface with regards to her outline, but now that I've cleared my schedule from now until the April test I am going through her material with a fine-toothed comb. Thank you again for the help Alissa!

I think that I will have to take the math subject test too and double major at Excelsior, as my foreseeable future in the B&M world appears to have come to an end. This will be a bit of a bear, IMHO. I never hear anyone say the math test was easy. Nobody ever seems to finish early and nobody ever seems to have competent familiarity with all subfields that appear on a given test. That being said, it is all about the % . As long as I can get to that magical 81% that is all that matters. I mean, we are all taking the same test, right? Hard or easy it just comes down to that 81%. I'll post about this subject test too once I get specific info out of Excelsior on it.