MLK Day

[Southron Boy]

I'll add this also, that southern crap talk won't be tolerated around me. That's pure ignorance. You can say it here, that's OK. I've found in the past, when these little weasels are challenged, they back down like the little sissies they are. There. I hope that's unpopular also. This is not aimed at you professor, just any other gutless southern whacks out there. Get over it.

Gary,

I don't care what color you or your wife are, but I do care about the principles this nation was originally founded upon---limited constitutional government and the rights of the people as they are united in States. That is what my ancestors fought for when they followed their revolutionary fathers and pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honour to defend the Southern nation known as the Confederate States of America. Would you take on that burden for anything you believed in? Lose all you have or hope to have? It was a second American revolution--fought over the same things--not the right to own a black man. In fact, there were many black slave owners. Abraham Lincoln was one of the most racist men this country has known, not to mention a hypocritical tyrant, who's view changed with the political climate. The Southern States were defending the constitution. The same thing those members of our armed forces are sworn to defend this day. Barak Obama's views on the constitution are what I would question---not his race. I'd vote for Alan Keyes one very smart and "domesticated" (as you put it) American. By the way, I've known few Southern men who would back down from their heritage "like the sissies they are". Most would defend the honor of their ancestors, as they were honorable, to the last man. In fact---THE SOUTH ALREADY DID!

Again, Deo Vindice.

ONE PROUD "SOUTHERN WHACK"

[Gary]

I would never call the southerners who fought in the civil war sissies. Matter of fact, I respect them as the great, noble fighters they were. In some ways, the civil war was not about racism. Many southerners actually changed sides during the war, not because they were losing, because many realized the wealthy plantation owners wouldn't even fight for the Confederate States. They bought their way out. Any one who has ever read up on the Civil War & Reconstruction understands men from both sides were heroes in their own way. The sheer level of death and destruction was and still is mystifying. That said, what exactly does the south is gonna rise up again mean? They are up. Everyone is moving there. What are they rising up from? The feds and control, the north???? Nuff already. You state, Arkansas, The greatest state in the union. At least you didn't say in the confederacy. The sissies are the ones who speak smack on here but you never hear it out there. I never hear this confederate talk in the prescence of African Americans. Our flag is the American flag, the Stars and Stripes, not the rebel flag. Let it go. You can honor your heritage and ancestors w/out all that mumbo jumbo. E. Pluribus Unum back at ya!

[studyhard]

what exactly does the south is gonna rise up again mean?

Well, at one level it's tongue-in-cheek and just means, "If the South (meaning ME) was in charge, all the bozos I disagree with in Washington would be outta here and life would be great and we'd all drink sweet tea forevermore and never pay taxes again and, y'know, stuff." That's usually what I mean when I say it. hilarious

At another level, people say it, not because they believe the South is truly going to form its own nation again, but because they believe and hope in the governmental principles that the Confederacy fought for--states rights and limited government.

Apropros of not much:
Census data: Only 27% of Southernors owned slaves, and most of those owned only one slave.
The Emancipation Proclamation frees no slaves (read it if you haven't)
There were black soldiers in the Confederate army
Lincoln's own state would not allow a black man to stay 24 hours in the state
The supposedly abolitionist North "freed" their slaves by, uh, selling them to the South

I'm certainly NOT pro-slavery. But my view is that since slavery was an issue with only a minority (just over 1/4) of Southerners and Northerners had plenty of slave guilt, racism and prejudice on their hands as well (did you know some Northerners were funding slave trading in Africa well into the 1950s--yes, NINETEEN fifties?), I can call myself a Southern sympathizer because I believe in the principle of limited government that the Confederacy fought for.

[Southron Boy]

StudyHard,

Thank you for your insightful post, as you brought up many points I was hoping to bring up as well. I appreciate your unbiased view based on principles and convictions, not liberal smoke screens and dogma.


Gary,

Meaning of "The South Will Rise Again!"?????---Well, many Southerners are still annoyed that they were held AGAINST THEIR WILL in what their forefathers had established as a voluntary union of States. They never had the opportunity to excell in their own right because of the Yankee Bayonet that pricked them in the back for the 4 years that they were an independent nation. The South knew they could live without their Northern brother. But, the North couldn't live without the South. We just wanted to be left ALONE. But, as Lincoln stated, "Let the South Go! Let the South go! My God, Man, where will we get our revenues!" If some of us are still a bit rabid when it comes to our heritage and our future, just think how you would feel if your grandfather fought, bled, and died in the 1st American Revolution alongside General Washington and then lost everything he had to the British who now would continue to rule these American "colonies". However, the British would say, "Why do you keep talking about your ancesters and the fact that America will one day be restored to her previous glory of limited government and a family-oriented, God-fearing society? Just accept that you fought for it, lost, and now move on!" I'd say to heck with the Brits. Never shall I forget the blood my ancesters spilled in defense of my freedom.

Just look at the IRA and Ireland's struggle for freedom for how many years? Look at Lithuania (sp?).

We Will Never Forget.

By the way, thank you for your service to our country in the Navy.

Semper Fi.

[Gary]

Just about all you mentioned I had read before and was aware of. Like I said, I respect both sides, they fought like hell for what they believed in. I found my studying for Civil War & Reconstruction extremely interesting using InstantCert and other resources. The one thing that happened here, and I must admit, I did set it up and I wasn't disappointed was that the post was about MLK. It quickly turned to Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson's B'day's. That did not surprise me in the least. Then, we went back and forth about the Civil War. The main message was missed. I do respect MLK and all he stood for, but the post turned out not about him. I am guilty as charged, I knew there would be posts somewhat like we had. I do nothing special in honor of that day, I work midnight shift regardless so it's business as usual. The whole point here is that the subject quickly turned "south". We all say we are not bigots or racists but seriously, there's some sort of proof. I've seen many of your posts StudyHard and there is no question, you have given out great info. Your more valuable to this site than I am. I do find it very interesting that once we start to peel away layers, we slowly start to really learn more about the actual person, they are not just a "stagename". There are still very strong southern views and I believe still a lingering anger over the outcome of the Civil War. But I may be wrong. I've appreciated the opportunity to post on this website. I am about ready to retire from it, I am just waiting for my official conferral date. It's been fun, I've enjoyed the sparring, it stimulates conversation. My views are my views, what I say here, I say out there. I hate racists and bigots, they are a threat to humankind. While I am in total agreement with others that the middle class is slowly being ruined, think about what's happening to the poor and minorities. This is in many ways a result of the upper class, they live sheltered from the bad effects of society in decline. They don't really see it, but they help create it. I've used the term before, they are throwing the misdirection at society as a whole and our anger is wrongly aimed at the poor. Think how stupid that really is. Apparently, all this education, all these degrees specializing in poverty and the like, all these thesis and higher and higher education..............and we blame it on the poor. Obviously, we need more education, Right????????? I'm ready to shake and call a truce, I am done fighting here.

[Southron Boy]

It quickly turned to Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson's B'day's. That did not surprise me in the least. Then, we went back and forth about the Civil War. The main message was missed. I do respect MLK and all he stood for, but the post turned out not about him.

Gary,

My intention wasn't to combat your original post, but political correctness seems to dictate that we praise men like Martin Luther King, Jr. and shun the memory of men like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. I was just illumniating something that is usually ignored and drawing a contrast. Why are the others ignored? Is it based upon color? Bigotry towards the South? Is it based upon what these men stood for? Do most people REALLY know what they stood for? Men like Lee and Jackson were unrefutably icons of honor and gentlemanly conduct. They lived almost unsullied lives and possessed character virtually unseen since their time (Lee even graduated West Point without a single demerit).

I am not sure what you were getting at with poverty and education at the end of your last post, but I respect your views and enjoyed the opportunity to converse and spar on this subject. In contrast to your apparant opinion, I submit to you that it is not anger over the South being overrun by Yankee tyrants that motivates many of the commentators on this post, but a LOVE for what the South stood for: Principles of limited constitutional government and a government "by the consent of the governed" as the Declaration of Independence states. When those principles are overrun, however, it should anger any red-blooded American. I love our union, but as Vice President John C. Calhoun bodly declared, "The Union---next to our liberties most dear!"

...And I can't tell you how many times I've spoken on, and debated this in public---not just nameless internet forums where one can hide behide a computer screen like a gutless capon. I am not ashamed of what I believe, as I can see you are not ashamed either. I think you'd be suprised at how many Americans feel the same way about Dixie. Touche'

[studyhard]

The whole point here is that the subject quickly turned "south". We all say we are not bigots or racists but seriously, there's some sort of proof.

Gary, I believe your profile says you're from New Jersey? If you've never lived in the deep South, you may not realize that things like Lee and Jackson's birthday are just a neat deal to some folks. It's not just some sort of "nyah nyah" to MLK day. This Saturday I am going to a Lee-Jackson banquet, one of many in my state. The speaker is a reenactress who does a first-person presentation of Jackson's wife. I am going to be wearing a Civil War ball dress and playing 1860s dinner music on my harp. It's just a cool thing to us. It's not some sort of in-your-face nastiness--we just like to celebrate it, because we respect those men.

I'm saying this because I think your assumption that saying "It's also Lee/Jackson's birthday" is bigotry or racism. Bigotry and racism says, "My race is superior to yours." I'm simply saying, "Hey, there's a neat Southern celebratory day the same day as MLK day," that all.

I have no use whatsoever for an attitude that things one race is somehow superior to another. I have black friends. They are super cool. I can't fathom thinking that I'm somehow better than someone else because of my skin. How OBNOXIOUS. Yeah, a lot of Southerners believed in white supremacy back in the 1860s. So did a lot the Northerners though. That's just how society was back then. But it's certainly not how I am today.

[Gary]

I was stationed in Chas, SC for 3 years so I have had exposure to the south. I traveled all over the south, went to the Iron Bowl in Birmingham in 1987. Been through Mississippi, Corinth and Tupelo and all parts north. I was there during Col Reb weekend at U of Miss. I went to my naval instructor school in Millington, TN and travelled throughout Arkansas, went to the state fair in Little Rock. Travelled from one end of the state to the red river region in Texas and back across the the upper portion of Ark. I've been all through Georgia (twinxt the hedges) and North Carolina, been to many races rooting on Dale the legend. I am keenly aware of life in the south. I was stationed in Norfolk, VA twice, although I realize, that's not really the deep south. I personnally am a big fan of SEC football (but NOT Florida, Tebow is just another great white hype). There is definitely tradition in the south but there is all over the country. I lay down my arms, I come in peace.