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05-05-2022, 12:48 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-05-2022, 01:02 PM by nomaduser.)
(05-05-2022, 12:12 PM)sanantone Wrote: Generally, IT programs are not designed to turn students into software engineers and developers. Computer science and software engineering programs will give you the theoretical foundation, but you still need to learn additional programming languages on your own.
This is sort of like a nurse practitioner expecting to learn surgery or a social worker expecting to learn therapy. Those programs don't focus on those things.
Not true.
These days, IT programs still come with curriculum that is not too behind that of CS program.
https://degrees.apps.asu.edu/major-map/A...ssive=true
IFT 300: Intermediate Database Management Systems
IFT 301: Web Programming for Human Computer Interface
IFT 320: Managing the Cloud
IFT 210: Introduction to Java Technologies
IFT 101: Information Technology Programming Logic
MAT 243: Discrete Mathematical Structures
This degree plan for example, would be more helpful for developers than average CS degree
However, I just felt learning through college isn't efficient... it feels like they're 15% of the really important things that can help you get jobs.
Degree is only a certificate. The rest of the real-world skills should be taught by yourself. Many of the latest & hottest frameworks and languages won't be mentioned in college courses.
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(05-05-2022, 12:48 PM)nomaduser Wrote: (05-05-2022, 12:12 PM)sanantone Wrote: Generally, IT programs are not designed to turn students into software engineers and developers. Computer science and software engineering programs will give you the theoretical foundation, but you still need to learn additional programming languages on your own.
This is sort of like a nurse practitioner expecting to learn surgery or a social worker expecting to learn therapy. Those programs don't focus on those things.
Not true.
These days, IT programs still come with curriculum that is not too behind that of CS program.
https://degrees.apps.asu.edu/major-map/A...ssive=true
IFT 300: Intermediate Database Management Systems
IFT 301: Web Programming for Human Computer Interface
IFT 320: Managing the Cloud
IFT 210: Introduction to Java Technologies
IFT 101: Information Technology Programming Logic
MAT 243: Discrete Mathematical Structures
This degree plan for example, would be more helpful for developers than average CS degree
However, I just felt learning through college isn't efficient... it feels like they're 15% of the really important things that can help you get jobs.
Degree is only a certificate. The rest of the real-world skills should be taught by yourself. Many of the latest & hottest frameworks and languages won't be mentioned in college courses.
This is very different from the average computer science program. It looks like your typical IT/IS program.
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(05-05-2022, 10:22 AM)allvia Wrote:
This is a perfect example of why to get the degree. It would be very rare to see an IT field position requiring anything above a bachelor - unless it is a management position (and they're likely looking for an MBA or 'similar degree'). All the most successful IT (covering all areas of IT/CS) people I know have not gone past the bachelor degree. Although they all work in bachelor degree 'required' jobs (although most don't require IT/CS degrees specifically) - it is their advanced certifications that qualify them for the highest level positions. There are some certifications that are like the unicorns of IT.
And most people I know in the IT field have a master's degree even though they never intended to get into management. Most of them have a master's in something business related. A few have IT/CS master's degrees. My husband was the only one in his department without a bachelor's degree. He'll finish it next week. This wasn't an issue until a company buyout. The lack of a bachelor's degree did keep him from being promoted at another organization as well.
The current company won't even accept resumes without a bachelor's degree. Doesn't matter how many certs you have. Without that 1 piece of paper they're not interested. The management is VERY old school and stuck in their decades old beliefs. The younger managers are now seeing the problems their lack of change is creating. It's becoming a major problem. The company takes at least 3 months to hire a someone. Who waits 3 months to be hired especially in 2022? It's not a bad company to work for. Decent benefits. But they're definitely not a progressive company who is interested in modernizing.
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I remember this guy who graduated with a CS degree from Princeton said that most people don't understand that CS is a science that mostly teaches theory. It wasn't intended to train IT practitioners similar to how math programs aren't intended to train accountants and biology programs aren't intended to train physicians.
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A degree provides you with a piece of paper and some knowledge. If you don't need that piece of paper, don't get the degree. If you don't need the knowledge or have figured out a better way to acquire the knowledge (such as self study), don't get the degree. Sounds like OP decided they don't need the piece of paper and have figured out a better way to acquire the knowledge. Good for them, let's move on.
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(05-05-2022, 12:48 PM)nomaduser Wrote: Many of the latest & hottest frameworks and languages won't be mentioned in college courses.
they aren't used in business either
most big systems still run on cobol
you still have many financial companies using python instead of 3
nobody's going to dump a system that has been working for years just because something else in new and popular
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(05-05-2022, 05:45 PM)bluebooger Wrote: (05-05-2022, 12:48 PM)nomaduser Wrote: Many of the latest & hottest frameworks and languages won't be mentioned in college courses.
they aren't used in business either
most big systems still run on cobol
you still have many financial companies using python instead of 3
nobody's going to dump a system that has been working for years just because something else in new and popular
It's good to at least be vaguely aware of, and possibly be willing to learn, new frameworks/languages. You never know when some new manager's going to come in and try to do something stupid. It happens. Might as well keep your job while looking for somewhere more sane to work.
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05-06-2022, 10:17 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2022, 10:40 AM by Johann.)
(05-05-2022, 12:48 PM)nomaduser Wrote: ...you still have many financial companies using python instead of 3
What kind of a language is 3? Never heard of it. Couldn't find anything about it. Is this a typo for "R"?
Or do you mean using Python 2.x instead of Python 3? Please explain.
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(05-06-2022, 10:17 AM)Johann Wrote: (05-05-2022, 12:48 PM)nomaduser Wrote: ...you still have many financial companies using python instead of 3
What kind of a language is 3? Never heard of it. Couldn't find anything about it. Is this a typo for "R"?
Or do you mean using Python 2.x instead of Python 3? Please explain.
That's right! I demand to know that info "Now-like right now!"... err, where's my bold and caps lock? Just kidding...
Anyways, I'm really curious as to this, I think nomaduser is referring to R as well. We will find out hopefully...
Most companies (financial or not) use Python and R for their data analytics, these are the two major ones.
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(05-06-2022, 11:42 AM)bjcheung77 Wrote: (05-06-2022, 10:17 AM)Johann Wrote: (05-05-2022, 12:48 PM)nomaduser Wrote: ...you still have many financial companies using python instead of 3
What kind of a language is 3? Never heard of it. Couldn't find anything about it. Is this a typo for "R"?
Or do you mean using Python 2.x instead of Python 3? Please explain.
That's right! I demand to know that info "Now-like right now!"... err, where's my bold and caps lock? Just kidding...
Anyways, I'm really curious as to this, I think nomaduser is referring to R as well. We will find out hopefully...
Most companies (financial or not) use Python and R for their data analytics, these are the two major ones. Perhaps they meant python 2 instead of python 3?
I know some orgs are still using the older version rather than updating. I believe we're at 3.10 now.
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