Bad Review for WGU: Dishonest, Incompetent, and Unreliable

[Merlin]

The old posts have been moved from the original thread to this one, but the date order is a bit mixed up. Not sure there is any way to fix that right now, but we'll see what we can do.

[jsd]

i have a WGU degree. I enjoyed my experience, but by no means do i think that a WGU degree amounts to some prestigious achievement. it's just a standard bachelor degree. I'm also not even above complaints like this, see my own personal history on this form of whiney complaints about Patten University.

but it's always funny that the people who make insane claims like "It's a shady, disreputable business that provides credentialing at a flat-fee. That's it..." are the same people who are complaining about how the school made it HARDER THAN EXPECTED for them to graduate. "they're a degree mill... because they didn't just accept everything i thought they would!"

...what? you can't have it both ways.

I don't think i have ever been on the same page as bluebooger, but this is a broken clock situation.

[Merlin]

i have a WGU degree. I enjoyed my experience, but by no means do i think that a WGU degree amounts to some prestigious achievement. it's just a standard bachelor degree. I'm also not even above complaints like this, see my own personal history on this form of whiney complaints about Patten University.

but it's always funny that the people who make insane claims like "It's a shady, disreputable business that provides credentialing at a flat-fee. That's it..." are the same people who are complaining about how the school made it HARDER THAN EXPECTED for them to graduate. "they're a degree mill... because they didn't just accept everything i thought they would!"

...what? you can't have it both ways.

I don't think i have ever been on the same page as bluebooger, but this is a broken clock situation.

Anyone who has been on the forum long enough will occasionally see posts from new posters who come to this forum to figure out their next steps after becoming jaded against some other school. They all vent about why their old school sucks or why some school they tried to get into is disreputable or misrepresentative because of something or other. It happens, all we can do is listen and use those experiences to help guide future students to avoid the same issues. It doesn't matter which school it is, we've seen similar posts about all of them. So, at least for me, I try to keep an open mind but tempered by the fact that I know this isn't the same experience for the vast majority of people. If it were more of a systemic issue, we'd see a lot more complaints about them considering how popular of a destination school WGU is.

Disagreements about transfer credits are particularly problematic. Dfrecore stated it much more succinctly, but transfer problems like the OP mentioned are by far the biggest issue that people have when they try to change schools or come back after a break. It happens at all schools, but WGU has more of them because of the way they structure their degrees and the types of courses that make them up. It isn't worth getting angry about though; if a school doesn't accept your credits, find another one that will. Luckily we have plenty of options these days.

Anyway, yes WGU does have its faults. But it isn't a degree mill, nor are they shadier than any of the other large open-access colleges with aggressive recruiting practices. If they were, they would lose their accreditation pretty quickly. We like them on this board because they accept a lot of transfer credits and accept credits from nontraditional sources, like NA schools and ACE providers.

As for the value of their degrees, a WGU degree has just as much value as every other unrated regionally-accredited no-name school. They are a checkbox degree just like the big 3. Much like the big 3, they are also best suited for adult learners who didn't complete college right out of high school and want to return later in life to do so. While nobody should be impressed by a WGU degree, none of the recruiters or hiring managers, or even academic advisors for Ph.D. programs I've spoken to have had any issues with it. As a hiring manager myself, I see most colleges as pretty much the same unless they are elite schools, or have a spectacularly good or bad reputation. WGU is mostly neutral in this area, though their IT degrees have a positive reputation among the IT community here in the Silicon Valley / San Franciso area.

In any case, while I didn't attend WGU for undergrad, all I can say is that this story doesn't jive with my own personal experience. Either in my time as a grad student or in my experience dealing with admissions again as they review my transcripts towards a second bachelor's degree. While I didn't get all the transfer credits that I was hoping for, I got the important ones and they are reviewing it again next week to look at the contended credits in more detail. So I have to admit to having some cognitive dissonance in this area. Hopefully we see more feedback from other WGU students.

[scorpion]

The old posts have been moved from the original thread to this one, but the date order is a bit mixed up. Not sure there is any way to fix that right now, but we'll see what we can do.

I think the layout will be pretty confusing, since the top post is now a few layers deep. Hopefully folks will still get something out of it.

i have a WGU degree. I enjoyed my experience, but by no means do i think that a WGU degree amounts to some prestigious achievement. it's just a standard bachelor degree. I'm also not even above complaints like this, see my own personal history on this form of whiney complaints about Patten University.

WGU is a nonprofit, it isn't a scam.

...

It is a shame WGU wasn't more honest with your situation.

> The credentials or certifications earned are worth your TCOA alone, since the degree isn't

wrong              
people have gotten jobs with the CS degree (even people who transferred in credits) LOL

> OK, I came up with a brief way. They're full of shit.

again, all you have to do is read the reddit and see that people have transferred in many study.com courses and have graduated with a CS degree
perhaps the problem isn't WGU, but you        

Sure, it's just a regular RA degree. I think any mention of impropriety at a university activates people's schemas for a diploma mill, which I never suggested WGU was. But saying that WGU is shady is not only a subjective assessment of their school either -- I lay out the ways that WGU was dishonest and give a case for why they shouldn't be trusted.

WGU's identity apes a regular university, but I think their history and nonprofit status lead people to give them too much credit. Every interaction I've had with them has had the slime attached to it that I've never seen outside of for-profit schools.  If you frequently browse by "new" or check the Removeddit/undelete notifications for the WGU subreddit, you see the huge amount of effort that goes into cleaning up negative reports on WGU. Since I've seen folks echoing the same sentiments and transfer experiences I have, I'm more inclined to think that I'm not a huge outlier -- and that part of WGU's aggressive advertising extends to astroturfing and managing their PR.

it's always funny that the people who make insane claims like "It's a shady, disreputable business that provides credentialing at a flat-fee. That's it..." are the same people who are complaining about how the school made it HARDER THAN EXPECTED for them to graduate. "they're a degree mill... because they didn't just accept everything i thought they would!"

...what? you can't have it both ways.

There's a variety of incentives that universities have to work toward their students' success, whether it's bound up in reputation/accreditation/federal funding for non-profits, or profitability and repeat business in for-profits. There's a huge difference between having strict but transparent requirements, and having teaser requirements that aren't actually honored. It's this distinction that I think sets WGU apart from the "Big 3" and why it shouldn't be treated as the same class of school.

I see the "you could've just tested out of it!" argument used all the time because of WGU's acceleration model. This just doesn't make sense, and is ultimately an argument that people should suck it up and repeat courses. That might be a feasible option because of the speed and cost of repeating courses at WGU, but it's still a repeat.

WGU must transfer credit for completed university coursework. Between their Title IV and RA requirements, and the realities of an adult student population, there's no getting around it. They publish policies on award of transfer credit, and even specific equivalencies, which students can use to make transfer decisions there. Their ECs make transfer plans with students to prepare them for a decision on the award of credit. Their evaluators have a stated policy for appealing award decisions and how those decisions are decided.

So what happens when they don't honor those same, published guidelines? "just take it again vro"...

When a business makes deceptive claims that benefit them at the expense of their customers, there's a term for it: fraud.

I can't claim to know the internal workings of WGU and prove that this is a case of malice rather than incompetence. But I'll certainly describe the questionable interactions I had while trying to get these issues resolved. You can decide for yourself.

> I applied 5/29/18. On 5/29/2020 (seriously!), after two literal years of back and forth with the program chairs, I finally got back an academic eval that corrected the issues I raised in my very first application.

LOL, in less than two years you could have completed the degree and be done by now (even with only 30 credits being accepted)        
all that times wasted is on you

Of course, if you're trying to give pragmatic advice, students shouldn't wait around two years for a school to get its shit together. No argument from me. But I didn't need a degree and I was in no rush to get in. Plus, I had a vested interest in clearing up any transfer ambiguity to make sure that the situation I went through wasn't repeated by future students.

My bad review is based on WGU specifically refusing to honor their own transfer guidelines. Plus, it was a transfer plan that I made with the guidance and blessing of WGU's own EC! I really don't know how the logic of a WGU stan can bend so far backwards that having WGU's own guidance rejected becomes the student's fault.

If you plan to blame students for WGU's decisions, there's really a benefit to hindsight in this. That's why my advice is that WGU should never, ever be considered by students who intend to transfer -- you can't afford to have your time wasted by their dishonest practices.

[rckola911]

Sorry to hear this, from what I understood, WGU is supposed to take up to like 20-30 transfer credits. Depending on the program.
Clearly they are not on the same page as the big 3! The problem with them is we dont have much data from folks that have used them. Very little info
on these boards have been brought up about them. They are good for computer degrees and thats I all i know about them.
I knew a coworker that got stuck on a English class with them for a computer degree. I always wondered why he didnt do straightline or something equivalent to bypass the basic/core stuff.
Apparently their transfer policy has some issues.

[LevelUP]

Sorry to hear this, from what I understood, WGU is supposed to take up to like 20-30 transfer credits.  Depending on the program.
Clearly they are not on the same page as the big 3! The problem with them is we dont have much data from folks that have used them.  Very little info
on these boards have been brought up about them.  They are good for computer degrees and thats I all i know about them.
I knew a coworker that got stuck on a English class with them for a computer degree. I always wondered why he didnt do straightline or something equivalent to bypass the basic/core stuff.
Apparently their transfer policy has some issues.

You can transfer up to 90 credits with WGU.  With a business degree, it's easy to transfer 90 credits.  With a computer degree, it is next to impossible to reach 90 credits using alternative credits.

I have seen people report some courses that are much harder than other classes.  With the 70% passing grade on the all or nothing final test, there is a lot of pressure on each course.

The computer degrees tend to be heavily weighted towards classes that get you certifications.  All those certifications add up to a pile of dog crap IMO.  But they do teach you the basics and cost a lot if you pay for them on your own. 

If you qualify for the Pell Grant, then WGU may be worth a try.  Worst case you can transfer your credits out and go to TESU/COSC later on.

Another thought might be you could go to WGU, then transfer to a traditional brick and mortar school.  That would save time & money yet still give you the experience of drinking and chasing tail (I mean enlightened social experience) of the brick and mortar schools.  You will also be in the esteemed position and saying your school sucks, mine is better which is unmeasurable in dollar terms and will add value and happiness to your life.

[Merlin]

Sorry to hear this, from what I understood, WGU is supposed to take up to like 20-30 transfer credits.  Depending on the program.
Clearly they are not on the same page as the big 3!

No, WGU isn't as generous as the TESU and EC in terms of how many credits you can transfer, but they allow up to 90 credits in transfer (30 credits of residency) which is pretty good overall. On par with COSC for people who want to base their degree on alt. education credits, since COSC only accepts 90 alt. ed. credits as well. That said, WGU is more generous than the Big 3 since they will accept ACE credits, RA credits, and NA credits. The Big 3 will only accept ACE and RA credits (well EC used to accept some NA credits, but I don't know if they still do, the other two don't accept NA at all).

The problem with them is we dont have much data from folks that have used them.  Very little info on these boards have been brought up about them. They are good for computer degrees and thats I all i know about them.

If you go back through this forum there are hundreds of posts about WGU, and there are even more if you go back through the archive. They just haven't been as popular until recently.

One nice thing about WGU though is that they are more transparent than TESU and COSC about what they will and will not accept... at least from StraighterLine and Study.com. Their pathway agreements specify the course equivalency and are kept up to date for the most part. It seems like TESU and COSC have been changing their acceptance policies quite a bit lately.

I knew a coworker that got stuck on a English class with them for a computer degree. I always wondered why he didnt do straightline or something equivalent to bypass the basic/core stuff.
Apparently their transfer policy has some issues.

People get stuck on courses all the time. It isn't exclusive to WGU. However, people also need to understand that WGU isn't an easy school. The courses are just as rigorous most other colleges. They're not on the same level as an ivy league or elite school, but for some reason people expect WGU courses to be easy. Sure, some are... especially for people with prior knowledge or strong study habits and plenty of free time. But in some ways, they can be harder than normal because you're expected to have prior knowledge or learn on your own without the handholding you get in a lot of in-person colleges.

As for the transfer policy, most people who have trouble with transfers generally have the problems because they make assumptions based on the name of the courses or assume that if a course is similar it will work for transfer purposes. That is not how evaluation works. It isn't the name that matters, but the content of the coursework. Incoming courses have to meet the same exact competencies as the course you are trying to replace at WGU. This can be challenging at WGU since many of their courses are unique to their programs, or are based on certifications, which means that incoming courses are unlikely to match. This sounds like what happened to the person who had the problems earlier in this thread.

You can transfer up to 90 credits with WGU.  With a business degree, it's easy to transfer 90 credits.  With a computer degree, it is next to impossible to reach 90 credits using alternative credits.

That isn't exactly true. With all the courses available from Study.com I'm pretty sure you can find more than 90 credits worth of transfer credits. I recently had my TESU BSBA-CIS transcript evaluated for the WGU BSCS. My TESU transcript is almost completely based on alt. credits, and between what I have now and about a half dozen additional courses from Straighterline and Study.com, I could enter WGU with like 96 credits completed, though only 90 could be used due to residency requirements. That said, having a prior IT degree allowed me to waive like 45 credits at WGU without even looking at specific courses.

I have seen people report some courses that are much harder than other classes.  With the 70% passing grade on the all or nothing final test, there is a lot of pressure on each course.

I'm pretty sure it is like every other school in that way. Some classes are just harder by nature. Math courses come to mind. The certification courses also tend to be very tough. At the same time, many of the Gen Ed courses are mostly rehash of content from high school and are generally pretty easy in comparison for people who have retained that knowledge. It also goes back to where people's strengths are. I do really well in technical courses while I know many others who struggle with those. YMMV. Btw, not all OA's have a 70% pass requirement... as I recall, they vary from 62% to 77% depending on the specific course. It is harder to see what the cutoff is now though since they hide it. At one time it was listed on each OA.

Worst case you can transfer your credits out and go to TESU/COSC later on.

Personally, I think that is a terrible idea. The worst of both worlds... at least in terms of cost and time. You'd be better off completing the bulk of your credits from ACE providers and transferring to either WGU or TESU from the start. TESU also is relatively unknown so other than being a state college, it doesn't have any name recognition. At least if you're doing IT or CS, the WGU degrees are well regarded in the tech sector.

At least COSC would be a bit cheaper, assuming you can transfer in at least 27 credits taken directly at WGU.

Another thought might be you could go to WGU, then transfer to a traditional brick and mortar school.  That would save time & money yet still give you the experience of drinking and chasing tail (I mean enlightened social experience) of the brick and mortar schools.

Unless you're pretty young (which is the minority of people on this forum) chances are that drinking and chasing tail are not the top of your list of priorities when coming back to complete a college degree. But if it is, then all the more power to you!  You should definitely not be looking at online schools though.

[sciencemathematics1]

Who should choose WGU?

• You're not transferring or are willing to start from scratch
  
• You can finish in few enough terms that the cost is still competitive with the Big 3
  
• You don't care about your GPA (including job minimums, graduate school requirements, etc.)
  

Regarding the CS program, would GPA matter for the job opportunities after graduating with the CS degree? I have heard some say that it only matters for some jobs where there is a GPA cutoff but only up to that point.

My TESU transcript is almost completely based on alt. credits

Since you are applying to PhD programs, how would you be able to get in if you have mostly alt credits? I heard that since they are not RA credits they would not be able to satisfy admission requirements.

[Merlin]

Who should choose WGU?

• You're not transferring or are willing to start from scratch
  
• You can finish in few enough terms that the cost is still competitive with the Big 3
  
• You don't care about your GPA (including job minimums, graduate school requirements, etc.)
  

Regarding the CS program, would GPA matter for the job opportunities after graduating with the CS degree? I have heard some say that it only matters for some jobs where there is a GPA cutoff but only up to that point.

First of all, if you take courses at WGU rather than transfer them in from alt. ed. sources, then you will have a GPA. WGU lists a 3.0 GPA equivalency on their transcripts. This is why I recommend that anyone who is planning to attend grad school should try to find out how their destination school evaluates incoming credits for entry purposes. Some will want to look at the last 60 credits in your undergrad degree, others will only care to see the specific courses that are pre-requisites for people entering the program. Once you know what that means, you just need to make sure that you cover all the courses and credit requirements that you need as classes taken at WGU directly rather than transferred in from ACE providers.

As for your question, unless you're coming into a job without any prior work experience, most hiring managers will probably not care about seeing a transcript or checking your GPA. Beyond that, this only really comes up is when you're applying to graduate schools or internship programs.

My TESU transcript is almost completely based on alt. credits

Since you are applying to PhD programs, how would you be able to get in if you have mostly alt credits? I heard that since they are not RA credits they would not be able to satisfy admission requirements.

Good question. And the answer is, it depends. Getting into a Ph.D. program depends a lot on how well you impress the admissions board. They want people with a strong academic and research background, but more than that they want people who are passionate and demonstrate qualities that suggest they will complete the program and go on to publish papers that make their school look good. So things like references, professional resume, professional accomplishments, and prior published works factor more heavily into the evaluation than GPA and test scores.

While I don't have the most amazing academic resume, I do have a pretty spectacular professional resume and list of accomplishments in my field. I don't have much in the way of academic references, but I know and have worked professionally with several Ph.D. holders who would probably write me a letter of recommendation talking about my research qualifications, etc. if asked nicely.

I've spoken to a few graduate advisors/research coordinators and gave them a rundown of my background and what I am trying to do. In each case they said that I should apply since I would probably be a strong candidate. While I don't look like the average Ph.D. applicant, that is actually a point in my favor since they are not just looking for professional students, but rather passionate researchers who can follow through and get published. The fact that I have a lot of hands-on coding experience and I am an older student will also work in my favor.

So, I think my chances of getting into a Ph.D. program somewhere is pretty good. I don't expect to get into a top program like Standford or Berkeley (and I'm not applying to anywhere like that). Plus I'm mostly interested in part-time distance-learning programs and I won't need a full-ride scholarship/fellowship, so it sounds like those should increase my chances as well since my requirements are low which means they can still bring in another full-timer in addition to me.

That said, in the meantime I'm strongly considering picking up a second bachelor's degree in computer science since that should help my entrance chances. I'm planning to do so at WGU so the bulk of my recent credits (and my CS core courses) will all RA credits rather than alt. ed. credits.

Worst case, if I don't find a Ph.D. program that works for me in CS, I may try to get into the Georgia Tech OMSCS, since that was my original goal. I can mostly do the same stuff I wanted to there as I would in a Ph.D., though it is more of a taught degree rather than a research degree. As an alternative, I can always pursue a business degree like a DBA or Ph.D. in Leadership at a school like U Cumberlands since I have a significant background in business as well as technology.

[LevelUP]

Regarding the CS program, would GPA matter for the job opportunities after graduating with the CS degree? I have heard some say that it only matters for some jobs where there is a GPA cutoff but only up to that point.

You don't even need a Computer Science degree to get a job at Google.

There is a guy that got a Math degree, had not done any coding whatsoever in school. After he graduated he decided to try coding so he took a 3-month boot camp which he paid $17,000 for. Within 6 months he got a job at Google.

Now he did graduate from an Ivey League school so that did probably help, but the point is worry about building your skills and you'll be fine.