Bennett Hypothesis: Financial Aid Increases Tuition

[alexf.1990]

I don't see how any of this is a defense against illegal immigration? It wasn't very long ago that labor unions were one of the strongest voices against flooding the labor market with cheap, unskilled labor. I can't see how the working class gets any benefit from illegal immigration. If anything, it seems to have been one of the biggest obstacles to higher wages. Raising the minimum wage above the market price will simply increase the amount of surplus labor (unemployment). The only way to meaningfully raise wages is to decrease the number of unskilled workers in the labor market.

Cesar Chavez himself was completely 100% against illegal immigration for these exact reasons, AND the fact that it took advantage of he illegals.  It's a lose-lose.

It's just the political parties looking out for their own interests. Republicans want cheap labor for agriculture and Democrats want to increase the Hispanic voting bloc. Meanwhile, wages are going down for Americans and the home countries of these immigrants are losing their most productive citizens. The problem is even more pronounced with H1B visas and student visas that siphon off the intelligentsia of developing countries.

Here is one of the more coherent arguments against mass immigration from a leftist perspective. But for the need to inflate the hispanic voting bloc, this would be the position of everyone on the left. Instead, anyone who doesn't want the country overwhelmed with cheap, foreign labor is called a bigot. Whats even more bizarre is that this influx of unskilled immigrants disproportionately puts negative wage pressures on black communities.

https://berniesanders.com/open-borders-a...-solution/

[sanantone]

I don't see how any of this is a defense against illegal immigration? It wasn't very long ago that labor unions were one of the strongest voices against flooding the labor market with cheap, unskilled labor. I can't see how the working class gets any benefit from illegal immigration. If anything, it seems to have been one of the biggest obstacles to higher wages. Raising the minimum wage above the market price will simply increase the amount of surplus labor (unemployment). The only way to meaningfully raise wages is to decrease the number of unskilled workers in the labor market.

Cesar Chavez himself was completely 100% against illegal immigration for these exact reasons, AND the fact that it took advantage of he illegals.  It's a lose-lose.

It's just the political parties looking out for their own interests. Republicans want cheap labor for agriculture and Democrats want to increase the Hispanic voting bloc. Meanwhile, wages are going down for Americans and the home countries of these immigrants are losing their most productive citizens. The problem is even more pronounced with H1B visas and student visas that siphon off the intelligentsia of developing countries.

Here is one of the more coherent arguments against mass immigration from a leftist perspective. But for the need to inflate the hispanic voting bloc, this would be the position of everyone on the left. Instead, anyone who doesn't want the country overwhelmed with cheap, foreign labor is called a bigot. Whats even more bizarre is that this influx of unskilled immigrants disproportionately puts negative wage pressures on black communities.

https://berniesanders.com/open-borders-a...-solution/

How come Dfrecore isn't calling this bigotry of low expectations? She won't because she's highly partisan just like Sapientes is. Are black people only capable of doing unskilled labor? I'm black and no undocumented immigrant has taken my job. I don't need to be a nanny, housekeeper, construction worker, or fruit picker to make a living. Illegal immigration doesn't affect white people? Are white people too good for these jobs?

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I don't see how any of this is a defense against illegal immigration? It wasn't very long ago that labor unions were one of the strongest voices against flooding the labor market with cheap, unskilled labor. I can't see how the working class gets any benefit from illegal immigration. If anything, it seems to have been one of the biggest obstacles to higher wages. Raising the minimum wage above the market price will simply increase the amount of surplus labor (unemployment). The only way to meaningfully raise wages is to decrease the number of unskilled workers in the labor market.

Cesar Chavez himself was completely 100% against illegal immigration for these exact reasons, AND the fact that it took advantage of he illegals.  It's a lose-lose.

Most people on the left are not for open borders. They see countries like Japan, which has a low birthrate, and they're struggling to fill certain types of jobs. The left mostly takes issue with xenophobia and racism. When you generalize a group of people as being rapists and drug dealers, it's not about jobs. When Trump supporters are randomly harassing Hispanics automatically assuming that they're here illegally, it's not about jobs. When people are attacked for speaking Spanish, it's not about jobs. When membership in white supremacist groups is growing and hate crimes against people of color are becoming more frequent, it's not about jobs. Political science research has found that Trump didn't win because of economic concerns. He won because of fears of changing demographics.

When Trump asks why we accept so many people from sh*thole countries instead of Norway, it's not about jobs. He specifically mentioned Africa. Because he's an uneducated idiot, he doesn't know that African immigrants tend to be more educated than the average American. Nigerian immigrants are the most educated group in the U.S., and their median income is above the national median. As people who are not here on H1B visas, I've seen a disproportionate number of Nigerians in criminal justice jobs the government has difficulty filling.

White people aren't making a stink over illegal immigration because they care so much about black people. Give me a break. Every group puts themselves first. The good-paying manufacturing jobs many black people had aren't gone because of illegal immigration. They're gone because they went overseas. But, some of you, with your REAL soft bigotry of low expectations, think that black people should be content with being your nannies.

[alexf.1990]

How come Dfrecore isn't calling this bigotry of low expectations? She won't because she's highly partisan just like Sapientes is. Are black people only capable of doing unskilled labor? I'm black and no undocumented immigrant has taken my job. I don't need to be a nanny, housekeeper, construction worker, or fruit picker to make a living. Illegal immigration doesn't affect white people? Are white people too good for these jobs?

---

Are you trolling, or do you really not understand the fundamentals of statistics? Your individual experience has no bearing on the aggregate data. Maybe I should present the issue from the perspective of a platform you can understand: https://www.theroot.com/how-illegal-immi...1790878554

[dfrecore]

Not sure how this went off the rails, but it's getting ridiculous.  I'm half-black (as I think you know Sanantone) so trying to portray me as saying that black people are only capable of doing unskilled labor is just silly.  I never said that, and have never thought that.

I'm also not "highly partisan" as I am not a republican, but a fiscal conservative who doesn't like fraud and abuse in the system which takes money away from things that I think are important.  You have no idea where I stand on social issues, and I've said on here in the past that I'm certainly not a Trump supporter (nor am I a never-Trumper), so I'm not sure how YOU can say what I stand for or even which political party I belong to (none, by the way).  If anything, I lean Libertarian in that I'm in favor of as little government as possible, because I think that all they do is get in there and screw up everything they get their hands on.  But please feel free to think that government is so awesome and if you just give them enough power, they'll fix everything that's wrong including racism.  Good luck with that.

I'm going to sign off now, as I think this has just gotten personal instead of trying to make arguments about economics, policy, etc.  Have a nice day.

[icampy]

A conversation without someone calling someone else racist would be awesome. I swear it is turning into the other site, always someone joining conversations to cry racism.

[sanantone]

How come Dfrecore isn't calling this bigotry of low expectations? She won't because she's highly partisan just like Sapientes is. Are black people only capable of doing unskilled labor? I'm black and no undocumented immigrant has taken my job. I don't need to be a nanny, housekeeper, construction worker, or fruit picker to make a living. Illegal immigration doesn't affect white people? Are white people too good for these jobs?

---

Are you trolling, or do you really not understand the fundamentals of statistics? Your individual experience has no bearing on the aggregate data. Maybe I should present the issue from the perspective of a platform you can understand: https://www.theroot.com/how-illegal-immi...1790878554

You mean how Videogamesrock thinks that his happy security guard is representative of the security industry or American workers as a whole? The private security industry averages over a 100% turnover rate. 

Did you read the article you linked to? Hundreds of thousands of black people work in the industries that mostly employ illegal immigrants. There are almost 40 million black people in the U.S. The article goes on to discuss discrimination against black people and how employers are twice as likely to prefer equally-qualified white applicants. Preference for equally-qualified white people hurts skilled and college-educated black people. Are only the parts of the article you agree with valid? Also, if illegal immigrants are making more than black people, then how are they depressing wages for black people? The article not only fails to show possible causation, it doesn't even show correlation. 

The irony in all of this is that the U.S. is largely responsible for what is going on in Central America. The U.S. has propped up dictators and paramilitary groups in that part of the world, but this country doesn't want to take any responsibility for it. 

Not sure how this went off the rails, but it's getting ridiculous.  I'm half-black (as I think you know Sanantone) so trying to portray me as saying that black people are only capable of doing unskilled labor is just silly.  I never said that, and have never thought that.

I'm also not "highly partisan" as I am not a republican, but a fiscal conservative who doesn't like fraud and abuse in the system which takes money away from things that I think are important.  You have no idea where I stand on social issues, and I've said on here in the past that I'm certainly not a Trump supporter (nor am I a never-Trumper), so I'm not sure how YOU can say what I stand for or even which political party I belong to (none, by the way).  If anything, I lean Libertarian in that I'm in favor of as little government as possible, because I think that all they do is get in there and screw up everything they get their hands on.  But please feel free to think that government is so awesome and if you just give them enough power, they'll fix everything that's wrong including racism.  Good luck with that.

I'm going to sign off now, as I think this has just gotten personal instead of trying to make arguments about economics, policy, etc.  Have a nice day.

Of course the government is not going to fix racism. The president panders to white nationalists and has no problem with unnecessarily psychologically abusing thousands of migrant children. Regardless of what you say about your support of Trump, the fact is that you voted for him even though he is far from being a Libertarian. He's not even a Republican.

And, I never once said that Americans are too good for the jobs Mexicans do or that Mexicans are only capable of doing unskilled labor. I didn't even mention Mexicans. For you to try to portray me as being racist towards Mexicans was ridiculous and despicable. If anything, I've been more understanding of the plight of undocumented immigrants than anyone else here. Sapientes is just as complicit for cosigning that disgusting accusation.

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A conversation without someone calling someone else racist would be awesome. I swear it is turning into the other site, always someone joining conversations to cry racism.

How come you didn't say anything when Dfrecore said that my post was racist? She was the first person in this thread to call someone racist. She was the one who started the personal attacks and now wants to play the victim. Please. It would be nice if this section weren't filled with hypocrites.

[videogamesrock]

I also want to add that the policy of rent control benefited the more affluent by allowing them to gain access to multiple cheap rentals to vacation in. It lead to a limited supply of housing. The government tries to interfere with free markets and fails at it just about always.

Government is good at private property protection through rule of law, national defense, and used to be good at limiting monopolies but not so much in recent years.

Just so you know I’m at the pool again. This time I’m hanging out with Jose and Sean. Both work in the sun all day and would rather not, but due to the pay they can’t justify leaving their jobs. Jose works with asphalt and Sean is an AC repair guy. I did both of their tax returns this year — they make good money.

[alexf.1990]

You mean how Videogamesrock thinks that his happy security guard is representative of the security industry or American workers as a whole? The private security industry averages over a 100% turnover rate. 

I don't speak for Videogamesrock. I have no idea why his post would justify the ignorance or dishonesty of your post.

Did you read the article you linked to? Hundreds of thousands of black people work in the industries that mostly employ illegal immigrants. There are almost 40 million black people in the U.S. The article goes on to discuss discrimination against black people and how employers are twice as likely to prefer equally-qualified white applicants. Preference for equally-qualified white people hurts skilled and college-educated black people. Are only the parts of the article you agree with valid? Also, if illegal immigrants are making more than black people, then how are they depressing wages for black people? The article not only fails to show possible causation, it doesn't even show correlation. 

Experts like Peter Kirsanow, Carol Swain, and George Borjas have written extensively on the negative wage pressures of immigration on unskilled workers. Black Americans, men in particular, are disproportionately represented in this category. I'm not sure how much clearer you can get. The fact that you aren't in the unskilled labor poor doesn't change the situation at all.

The irony in all of this is that the U.S. is largely responsible for what is going on in Central America. The U.S. has propped up dictators and paramilitary groups in that part of the world, but this country doesn't want to take any responsibility for it. 

America's poor should be forced to pay the cost of the government's failed foreign policy? Is that really your position?

How come you didn't say anything when Dfrecore said that my post was racist? She was the first person in this thread to call someone racist. She was the one who started the personal attacks and now wants to play the victim. Please. It would be nice if this section weren't filled with hypocrites.

You attempted to conflate my ideas with racism as well, and you've been intentionally dishonest in your arguments. When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, I suppose.

[sanantone]

You mean how Videogamesrock thinks that his happy security guard is representative of the security industry or American workers as a whole? The private security industry averages over a 100% turnover rate. 

I don't speak for Videogamesrock. I have no idea why his post would justify the ignorance or dishonesty of your post.

Did you read the article you linked to? Hundreds of thousands of black people work in the industries that mostly employ illegal immigrants. There are almost 40 million black people in the U.S. The article goes on to discuss discrimination against black people and how employers are twice as likely to prefer equally-qualified white applicants. Preference for equally-qualified white people hurts skilled and college-educated black people. Are only the parts of the article you agree with valid? Also, if illegal immigrants are making more than black people, then how are they depressing wages for black people? The article not only fails to show possible causation, it doesn't even show correlation. 

Experts like Peter Kirsanow, Carol Swain, and George Borjas have written extensively on the negative wage pressures of immigration on unskilled workers. Black Americans, men in particular, are disproportionately represented in this category. I'm not sure how much clearer you can get. The fact that you aren't in the unskilled labor poor doesn't change the situation at all.

The irony in all of this is that the U.S. is largely responsible for what is going on in Central America. The U.S. has propped up dictators and paramilitary groups in that part of the world, but this country doesn't want to take any responsibility for it. 

America's poor should be forced to pay the cost of the government's failed foreign policy? Is that really your position?

How come you didn't say anything when Dfrecore said that my post was racist? She was the first person in this thread to call someone racist. She was the one who started the personal attacks and now wants to play the victim. Please. It would be nice if this section weren't filled with hypocrites.

You attempted to conflate my ideas with racism as well, and you've been intentionally dishonest in your arguments. When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, I suppose.

You went on and on about how black people are failures, and it's their own doing. Now, you want to blame immigrants. There really is no point in having a discussion with you.

---

I also want to add that the policy of rent control benefited the more affluent by allowing them to gain access to multiple cheap rentals to vacation in. It lead to a limited supply of housing. The government tries to interfere with free markets and fails at it just about always.

Government is good at private property protection through rule of law, national defense, and used to be good at limiting monopolies but not so much in recent years.

Just so you know I’m at the pool again. This time I’m hanging out with Jose and Sean. Both work in the sun all day and would rather not, but due to the pay they can’t justify leaving their jobs. Jose works with asphalt and Sean is an AC repair guy. I did both of their tax returns this year — they make good money.

Good for you. Several lazy people at my job were complaining about having to walk a lot in an air conditioned building, and they make good money for a job that has hours of downtime.

[alexf.1990]

You went on and on about how black people are failures, and it's their own doing. Now, you want to blame immigrants. There really is no point in having a discussion with you.

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The consensus opinion among economists is that the waves of unskilled immigrants coming here disproportionately hurts black communities. I'm not sure why you're even trying to argue this point.
As for the lack of success in black communities, there are a number of causes. Culture, family structure and disparity in education rates are probably among the biggest. You seem to think that racism is the root cause of the income disparity, and thats clearly wrong, as we've seen from the tremendous success achieved by Indian and Chinese populations. Your failure to acknowledge reality has allowed you to support immigration policies that hurt the community you're trying to help.