My confusing journey to picking a grad school

[Ideas]

I've spent about 9 months going back and forth on what I want to do after the BSBA. Well, I have been certain of doing the second degree at TESU for months now, but I'm still working on choosing a Masters. I think I'm getting close to picking. I might apply/enroll within weeks. But I might wait until later in the year.

This post is really long, it's ended up being a huge brainstorming session for me, if anyone wants to reply to parts without reading it all, that's great too!

I want to have a better sense of what Doctorate I feel I am more likely to do, before I settle on a Masters program. I may take the easy way out eventually and not do a "real" doctorate, just a non-dissertation one, or I might just never go for doctoral level, but I want to know more about the options.

I was wondering if any generalizations can be made about the types I'm considering? Basically, would I have an easier time completing a DBA than PhD? Ed.D compared to PhD? And how would DBA and Ed.D compare? I know they are all going to be difficult, etc.

Also, I would like to know more about the "thesis by publication" ones, versus normal dissertation, versus any other options which still lead to a "real" doctorate.

I find business courses to be easy and interesting (except I find some parts to be a drag, mostly econ/accounting). But I think I would like education courses even more! I'm not sure as I haven't really taken edu.

I know I sound crazy. I am, but my odd choices/plans are also because I have serious health issues and these are kind of 'bucket list' things for me. Still, I am trying to keep in mind what degrees I might actually use too. I believe just about any degree will help me in my freelancing, but I'm trying to think what employers might like, somewhat, because I would rather have a regular job than freelance. I am also weighing the availability of online programs which are reasonable in terms of cost and time. (I would even consider programs that had a little bit in person, but I'm less interested in them.)

I feel that I'm forced to "hedge my bets" and have multiple career paths in mind, because I feel like I can't be sure I can get into a job I want in my top career path, mostly because of my health considerations. But I think I have it narrowed down and it seems basically every option relates to teaching in some way. So, I don't feel that's odd to have more than 1 area you're qualified to teach, so that you have more school openings to apply to.

I am thinking of either doing the MBA first, fast, then Ed.D... or instead do M.Ed first, fast, then DBA or PhD. I like the second option better for sure, on a personal level, but I feel like the first option might help me more in terms of adjunct teaching (and potentially going further in that career path). At least, help me get going sooner with work experience. Because, if I did the M.Ed first, then I still don't have 18 grad credits in any area! (Besides edu, which I am very unlikely to be hired for at first since community colleges don't really teach edu. I would like to teach about edu someday.) MBA is so quick and could help land me my first adjuncting position.

HOWEVER. With my preferred second path, the M.Ed I would do, would have a concentration in Health which is actually a strong interest, and I think it would help me more in freelancing than the MBA. The concentration would give me almost 18 in HLTH and almost 18 in EDU, and I guess I can just pick up an extra class in each. 

I would get through the M.Ed pretty quickly but not as cheaply and quickly as the MBA. It's not that much more to me, so I don't want price/time to factor in much. I guess I feel like it "sets me back" a whole term though, i.e. that I would be applying for Spring adjuncting instead of Fall/Winter term adjuncting. Because I believe I might have a chance even if the MBA isn't fully complete.

And the MBA would be IT concentration, which might allow me to teach low level IT courses. (Schools are less particular about formal education for IT courses.)

So I am inclined to go with the M.Ed. But here's where it gets complicated... 

First, what does the M.Ed actually do for me? I feel like I want an education degree very much personally, and would love studying that subject matter, but in terms of teaching, it seems I may be better off getting a degree that's "fully" in health like a MPH with Health Education concentration. I think they might prefer that and it could help me in some other freelancing ways more than M.Ed in Health Ed. I guess I just don't like giving up on my personal dream of the "M.Ed".

Secondly, I feel that "the responsible thing" to do would be for me to scrap most of the above and get an IT/CS kind of degree. I feel that I would be less happy working in those type of careers, BUT that the pay would be good, so I could work less, still earn more. I also feel this path is more likely to lead an actual FT job with benefits, since most adjunct teachers never land a FT, and since in some ways I am limited in my teaching career due to the health issues.

I'm currently feeling like it comes down to doing what I want (M.Ed) that's likely to mean I'm freelancer/contractor without good stable income, or doing something responsible (MPH or a Tech/Comp Masters) where I think I'll be more stressed doing the work, and in some ways less satisfied and interested in the work, but probably more happy/satisfied with life/career overall? I am tired of not having a "real" career and if it were not for my health issues, I am sure I could find one that good for me in most every way. Because of my health I feel somewhat forced into doing Tech/Comp or Health/Sci, and I do have interest and some experience in both areas, just not sure that the particular jobs I could land would be ones that are interesting/challenging/etc to me. I hope there would be. 

I've looked and looked for Tech/Comp jobs that work with my health problems. I guess what I dislike most is I feel like the schooling part would take so long, and so much effort, and even then, I wouldn't necessarily be very 'competitive' as an applicant. But this is also the case with Health Ed/Sci/etc. And actually, if I take either of these "responsible routes", I feel like if I could do adjunct teaching for about 3 years, it opens up more possibilities for me. Others have warned me away from Tech and Public Health but I see some possible opportunities for myself in the areas and very few decent opportunities in anything else I might like.

So, then I start thinking that I really better do the MPH in HE, or the right kind of tech degree. But what I dislike is they are so much slower than the M.Ed/MBA, and then it's slowing me down too much because I couldn't apply for adjunct positions, volunteer/internships, etc for way too long. I'm confused! I've felt for a while if I could find the right tech degree that was also fast, I would do that. The Hodges discontinued IS degree is probably what I would have done if I had my Bachelor's sooner  And now I feel I could find the right MPH which was also fast, I would do it -- but I feel like I want HE concentration which is so limiting.

[armstrongsubero]

Hmm, I understand your dilemma. You must choose your Masters, but for the PhD I really think the degree at Pan African Christian University in Organizational Leadership is for you. It stresses consulting and research and is insanely cheap:

https://www.pacuniversity.ac.ke/index.ph...cle&id=167



It's also 3 years, which is a short time for a PhD.

[Sagan]

Talk of a doctorate seems premature. One should consider the transformative aspects of doing a master's before considering the same for a doctorate.

You should consider master's options as they might affect your career now. Once you've done that; once you've done a master's, then it might be useful to contemplate doing a doctorate.

[Ideas]

Oops, I can't edit the original anymore. It needs a TLDR; I feel like I "should" do an MPH or IT Masters, but I'm not finding any which are self-paced at a reasonable price. And I personally like really the idea of doing an M.Ed (or possibly an MBA which is even quicker and cheaper than the M.Ed) toward a career that feels better to me. It's a degree I kind of want for bucket list reasons, but this path probably won't as successful (income and chances of landing a FT job with my health issues).

Like yesterday, I think I'd go for the MPH (or something else in Health Science or similar) or certain areas of IT if I could find one I like. If I don't find one soon, I may start the M.Ed with Health Ed concentration soon, or I may just spend time on something else for now.

Hmm, I understand your dilemma. You must choose your Masters, but for the PhD I really think the degree at Pan African Christian University in Organizational Leadership is for you. It stresses consulting and research and is insanely cheap:

https://www.pacuniversity.ac.ke/index.ph...cle&id=167



It's also 3 years, which is a short time for a PhD.

I don't need it that cheap

I would prefer a school without the religious slant.

Is it short? I guess that is shorter than many. I think I've seen a few that are 27-34 months. In a thread a while ago, I believe sanantone wrote about one which could be done in 2 years.

---

Talk of a doctorate seems premature. One should consider the transformative aspects of doing a master's before considering the same for a doctorate.

You should consider master's options as they might affect your career now. Once you've done that; once you've done a master's, then it might be useful to contemplate doing a doctorate.

That is good advice. I won't allow my thoughts about the doctorate to affect the next steps much. But I like to think of where the next move might land me... somewhat. Like thinking ahead in chess.

I do think I want my Masters and Doctorate to be different, unlike most people.

[armstrongsubero]

@sagan I would disagree though, it's not premature because the norm is after you Bachelors, you start a PhD. I mean we are online so it doesn't work like that but you would normally finish a bachelors and help a prof work on research to do a PhD. so people choose to end their education with a masters, but if you are sure you want a PhD you start it after bachelors.

[dfrecore]

@sagan I would disagree though, it's not premature because the norm is after you Bachelors, you start a PhD. I mean we are online so it doesn't work like that but you would normally finish a bachelors and help a prof work on research to do a PhD. so people choose to end their education with a masters, but if you are sure you want a PhD you start it after bachelors.

I have never heard anything about this being "the norm."  Ever.  As a matter of fact, though I know many people with masters degrees, including many MBA's, I don't know a single person who has a PhD in my real life.  I don't even know anyone who contemplated a PhD, let alone started one.  And certainly not after finishing their bachelor's degree.

With about 25-30% of American's having a BA, and less than 2% having a PhD, I don't think it could be considered "the norm."

[armstrongsubero]

@drfecore I meant for persons who want a PhD, it is the norm, well im my country at least. I'll draw an example with my life, in high schools locally there is something called CXC, in my high school which was semi-private, if you perform well during you first three years at high school, you are placed in the "science" class, which means you will be allowed to study and write chem, phys, bio, math, add math etc. for CXC. If your grades weren't as good, you are placed in the "modern studies" class, if your grades are very poor, you are placed in the "business class".

Once you are in the science class you are automatically assumed to pursue a career in medicine or engineering because science class has the most scholarship winners and even if you dint get one, to study engineering or medicine, you had to have grades II or higher in Chem, Phys and Bio. For med, it had to be perfect. Keep in mind there are only two major universities, and the others are UK schools that allow you to earn degrees through them studying here, and still there is like 8 at most.

I was in a High School class of 20 "science" students, of them 8 wanted to become engineers, 9 wanted to become medical doctors, 2 wanted to become dentists and 1 a pilot. The only one that isn't in their job today is me, I wanted to be an electrical engineer. The 11 who wanted to become doctors and dentists  went on to do their BMBS which leads to a whole lost of channels to becoming a doctor. and the dentists do an "undergraduate dental education program" that allows them to gain entry to study in the Doctor of Dental Surgery program. Today all of them are Doctors. The only ones who aren't doctors yet are 2 who after finishing there undergrad in electrical engineering, are doing research locally to earn PhDs and one is a pilot just as she wanted, and the others work in the petroleum industry. My younger sister who was in the science class a few years after me also has classmates that are pursuing similar routes, with she studying computer engineering.

So when I said "norm" I was looking at if from the perspective of persons who plan on getting a PhD, after their bachelors pursuing it directly. From high school you make up your mind if you're going to uni or not, if you are going straight up to a PhD or not. In my case I simply couldn't afford to study up to my PhD locally, despite government paying for tuition at undergrad, rent and food aren't free. Had I finished my undergrad, I would have been able to get a stipend and teach classes whist studying for a PhD.

As for the modern studies class, they are the ones who usually end up as teachers, police, fire, military, IT etc. and the business class well, anything can happen with them, though daddy's money helps most of them, it's ironic some of the wealthiest kids end up in business class, and they inherit family business. 

As for MBA's, its not looked upon as very prestigious here because many of the UK universities that have schools here, advertise the "6 month" and "1 year" MBA. Some of those programs allow people with CXC to enter once they are over 25 or have enough experience to enter. An MBA is a piece of paper you get to get a raise or if you are like in you 50's and have a lot of money and need something to hang on your wall you go get an MBA.

In the US, I don't know how it is, but some guys I can name who after undergrad went on to study PhDs, though they dint finish.

Elon Musk
Larry Page
Sergey Brin

[dfrecore]

In the US, it definitely isn't the norm to go straight from a BA to an Phd. Thankfully, we also don't put kids onto certain tracks when they're 16 to try to determine their futures and steer them in a certain direction - although this is a separate problem with not having non-college tracks in schools that kids can choose for themselves in high school, like carpentry, mechanics, or culinary arts (thankfully our high schools have these options in my town).

[jsd]

It might be a difference between our countries, then.

I agree with dfrecore. it is uncommon here to go straight to a doctorate tract. If you go further than a BA/BS, you would usually start with a masters and continue on if you so choose. I do know some PhDs in "real life" (though very few - 3 off the top of my head), they didn't go straight to that program from a BA/BS

[armstrongsubero]

@dfrecore Well it's not like they want too, it's because you know the labs aren't extremely large, and they don't want to force people to doing what they don't want to do. Some people hate math, add math, phys, chem etc forcing them to do it is kinda mean. Everyone has to do math, Eng A and Eng B. They will do integrated science which has very little math. And some students really can't even cope with modern studies subjects like IT, Span, French etc. Business courses are somewhat easier and no one really flunks out. You are given 7-8 subject areas to study and passing 5 with at least grade III is considered being successful. with this method it is very rare to see anyone get under 4 passes. idk, but some people are more inclined to doing certain things. I LOVED phys and chem in HS, my dad punished me once by taking away some chem books he thought I was reading too much, yet some people would rather gouge out their eyeballs that look at a chem book.

@jsd Well there is the Government Assistance for Tuition Expenses (GATE), it is limited now because of the situation with the oil prices, but in my time it was free to go to school for an undergrad and the government would pay 50% for graduate studies, so it was pretty normal in the non-sciences to do masters in your field of a good number of years, though you need upper second class honors to enter into any grad program.