Succeeding with a PhD

[Ideas]

I don't know much about careers for those who completed a doctorate, and I am curious. I hear regularly about PhD-holders not making much. I found this about the PhD-holders who didn't attend the top schools not being able to get a good position at a school:

In 2012, he conducted a review of the 3,709 political science professors who were then employed by Ph.D.-granting universities and found that just 11 schools had produced 50 percent of the total. Harvard, at the top of the list, was responsible for 239 of the professors. Purdue, on the other hand, was responsible for 10 of them.

Source: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/educa..._good.html

Do you think that the school matters much more for PhD compared to Masters' degrees? Perhaps the other 50% of PhD-holders are the ones bringing down the average salaries? Do they usually find employment at a university, just not a great one? Do some of them go work for a corporation in the end, and do they get paid more than a Masters' degree holder? Do you think the ones outside of academia, working at the lesser schools, are happy with their choice to finish their doctorate?

[bjcheung77]

PHD's coming from any other school other than the "top Ivy League" schools would be sufficient if you want to teach at a community college or private school.
If you're wanting to be a teacher at a "better known" school, you got to have your PHD from a "well known/recognized" school... it's reality, it's how things are now.
A few decades ago, PHD's were hard to come by, now with the invention of online/distance education, PHD's aren't as hard as before, they're cheap/easy/fast!

[Thorne]

A few decades ago, PHD's were hard to come by, now with the invention of online/distance education, PHD's aren't as hard as before, they're cheap/easy/fast!

Yeah... no. If a PhD were easy, I'd be looking into one after my intended MA/MS + MBA combo. If it were even moderately difficult, I wager that Sanantone would have finished her dissertation by now. Writing a 100-200 page research paper with a significant, genuine, unique idea behind it is hard.

Doctorates-at-large are easier than they used to be since the professional/practical degrees (DBA, EdD, JD/EJD) are easier than ever, but those aren't the good ol' PhD.

[sanantone]

PHD's coming from any other school other than the "top Ivy League" schools would be sufficient if you want to teach at a community college or private school.
If you're wanting to be a teacher at a "better known" school, you got to have your PHD from a "well known/recognized" school... it's reality, it's how things are now.
A few decades ago, PHD's were hard to come by, now with the invention of online/distance education, PHD's aren't as hard as before, they're cheap/easy/fast!

This information is misleading. There are only a handful of Ivy League schools, and some of them aren't even ranked at the very top. MIT and Stanford, for example, are ranked higher than some Ivy League schools. Additionally, what matters is the school's rank in its field rather than its overall rank. For example, many of the top criminology schools are not ranked very high overall, but they are ranked high in criminology. Their graduates have no problem with finding jobs. And, there is only one Ivy League school with a criminology program.

To add even more, you're completely ignoring the fact that there are thousands of schools that lie between top-ranked schools and community colleges. Most tenured professors did not graduate from an Ivy League school. There aren't nearly enough Ivy League graduates to fill all the tenure-track positions at the thousands of traditional schools.

This is how it works in criminology and some other fields. It is very rare that a person will get a job at a school that is ranked higher than the one they graduated from unless that person is a publishing superstar or came up with some brilliant theory. When I'm talking about rank, I'm talking about rank in the field of study. However, the number one school has no choice but to hire people from the number two and three schools.

When you look at rankings in particular fields, you will notice that there are relatively few schools ranked. There are hundreds of schools offering criminology/criminal justice programs, but I believe only 25 schools were ranked. Texas State University started its doctoral program after the last ranking, and it doesn't appear that U.S. News has any plans to update that ranking because they haven't since 2009. In addition, U.S. News only ranked schools with doctoral program in criminology; most schools with criminology programs do not have doctoral program in criminology.

While the graduates from Texas State University may not land jobs at the 25 or so ranked criminology programs, they have had no problems with finding jobs. Do you know why? It's because over 90% of the criminal justice/criminology programs out there are not ranked.

Whether or not you'll land a tenure-track position will depend on whether or not there is an oversupply of PhDs in your field. I really don't understand what you mean by "community college or private school." Ivy League schools ARE private schools. Many of the top-ranked schools in the nation are private schools. There are some public universities that are ranked high, but there are many that are ranked low or not ranked at all. Your use of terminology is inaccurate and will only confuse people.

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A few decades ago, PHD's were hard to come by, now with the invention of online/distance education, PHD's aren't as hard as before, they're cheap/easy/fast!

Yeah... no. If a PhD were easy, I'd be looking into one after my intended MA/MS + MBA combo. If it were even moderately difficult, I wager that Sanantone would have finished her dissertation by now. Writing a 100-200 page research paper with a significant, genuine, unique idea behind it is hard.

Doctorates-at-large are easier than they used to be since the professional/practical degrees (DBA, EdD, JD/EJD) are easier than ever, but those aren't the good ol' PhD.

Well, my PhD isn't online, but I can say that I chose it because it was cheaper than going online. That's another inaccurate statement from bjcheung. In general, online doctoral programs are not cheaper, and you have less of a chance of getting non-loan funding. I'm not so sure if they're fast either. The for-profit schools have an incentive to keep you in longer, and I've seen many doctoral students at Capella and similar schools complain about delays. By the way, Capella and Walden are some of the most popular schools for online doctorates, and they cost over $60,000.

Earning a doctorate online is more convenient, but it's not necessarily cheaper. It may only be faster because you can attend full-time. Most full-time workers only have enough time to attend part-time in ground programs.

[Bibby]

I hear regularly about PhD-holders not making much.

The most common reason someone would get a PhD would be to become a tenure-track professor, and teaching is a very low-paying profession relative to the amount of education required to enter the field.

I found this about the PhD-holders who didn't attend the top schools not being able to get a good position at a school:

Highly desirable positions tend to be very competitive, and graduating from a top school is often the tie-breaker when there's a lot of competition. It also depends on what you're teaching: There are more people wanting to teach political science than computer science or IT, at least relative to the number of openings.

[sanantone]

Higher Ed does a salary survey every year. Chronicle might also have its own. Average salaries vary by field and type of school.

https://www.higheredjobs.com/salary/sala...urveyID=39