Charter Oak State College - New Degree in B.S. Business Administration

[KittenMittens]

I was able to take the Information Systems and Computer Applications CLEP to satisfy the MIS requirement at COSC. (This was suggested on an advising sheet from COSC.) This would probably be the best way for you to satisfy this requirement, since you are wanting to avoid DSSTs.

That's great to know! Would you be able to provide any sources for that? I'd like to add it to the wiki if CLEP Information Systems and Computer Applications can satisfy it.

[topdog98]

That's great to know! Would you be able to provide any sources for that? I'd like to add it to the wiki if CLEP Information Systems and Computer Applications can satisfy it.

Here is the source that shows the Inf. Sys. CLEP satisfying the MIS requirement.

[KittenMittens]

Here is the source that shows the Inf. Sys. CLEP satisfying the MIS requirement.

Lol, that would have been good to know before taking the DSST in MIS. I would have preferred the CLEP one for sure.

[Tedium]

Yes, you don’t need to take the Business Ethics UExcel exam. I forgot about the UExcel Business Ethics exam (and I didn’t include it because it wasn’t counted as a liberal arts elective whereas DSST Business ethics was plus it was pass/fail).

If you wanted another upper level exam, you could take the regular UExcel Ethics exam (separate from the DSST Business Ethics or UExcel Business ethics one). They let me take both DSST Business Ethics and UExcel Ethics - Theory & Practice for the additional UL credit (though this exam costs way more keep that in mind).

COSC’s MIS course would probably cost you out of state like $360 * 3 = $1,080 or so (plus the associated fees). If it were me, I'd save the money and finish a 2nd UL business course through COSC (are you doing part-time financial aid for 6 credits???), worry about one less business elective, and spend $100 to get an easy pass for DSST MIS. If you did it the other way, you'd spend like $1,100 for each course (an upper level business course and one MIS course) for an extra grand. I know you exclude Penn Foster's, but realize they are extremely easy, cheap ($237), and can be finished in a few hours/days tops. Some of them have no proctor requirements, and if they do can be generally anyone including a friend as long as they have a college degree.


I imagine you’re thinking of getting partial financial aid with MGT 499: Capstone course by having 6 credits, right? Keep in mind that before then you need/should have satisfied the MIS course, as well as Organizational Behavior. This is MGT 499’s pre-reqs:
“Prerequisites:
• ACC 101: Financial Accounting
• ACC 102: Managerial Accounting
• FIN 210: Financial Management
• ITE 101: Management Information Systems
• MGT 101: Principles of Management
• MGT 315: Organizational Behavior
• MKT 220: Principles of Marketing
• ENG 101: English Composition 1
• ENG 102: English Composition 2”

You may be able to get a waiver if you don’t have some of these fulfilled, but that’s between you and the college and what they feel like doing. So you may have to do the MIS course or exam before then as well.

edit: There is a Finance requirement, and most people tend to choose between doing the DSST in Finance (which is known for being hard) or Penn Foster's Financial Management course which is a joke (no proctored final, 5 easy multiple choice quizzes and final with each being bale to retake twice). You can finish that within 10 hours or so with minimal reading.

I'm going to reply to this, and then I'll start my own thread on my degree plan so that I don't hijack this thread any more than I already have.

I was planning to use MGMT 499 as one of my two classes for partial financial aid. The way they explained my current Capstone to me is that I could only take it once I had 6 credits left to take in my concentration. Since I can't start really hardcore testing out until I graduate with my BA, that leaves me a very small, but I think doable window in which to test out of all the pre-reqs for the BSBA Capstone. If they are adding Bus. Stats. and Bus. Law to make the major, and taking nothing away, that leaves me quite a few options of things I can test out of now.

Adding those two classes gives us a major with 42 credits, and the 6 credits of Micro-Macroeconomics they have listed under the heading of "Pre-Requisites".
According to the Catalog:

"To earn a second baccalaureate degree in a major other than General Studies, a student must:

• obtain approval from the Director of Admissions;
  
• earn a minimum of 30 semester credits subsequent to the award of the initial degree; 15 of which must be upper level in the new major;
  
• meet all of the requirements of the major.
  

So I need 30 fresh credits, 15 of which are UL. That means if this major works the way I hope it does, I can test out of 18 credits before I even graduate with my BA. 42 major credits+6 pre-reqs-30 after degree= 18

So I could do this:

Prerequisites:
• ACC 101: Financial Accounting - CLEP
• ACC 102: Managerial Accounting [B]- UExcel
[/B] • FIN 210: Financial Management [B]- UExcel
[/B]• ITE 101: Management Information Systems [B]- CLEP
[/B] • MGT 101: Principles of Management [B]- CLEP
[/B]• MGT 315: Organizational Behavior
• MKT 220: Principles of Marketing [B]- CLEP
[/B]• ENG 101: English Composition 1 [B]- Transfer
[/B]• ENG 102: English Composition 2 [B]- Transfer

[/B]Or I could leave off Principles of Management and Principles of Marketing until I graduate Dec. 31, since those two exams are known to be easy, and CLEP out of Micro and Macroeconomics. Basically get as many LL requirements out of the way as possible.

I hear what you're saying about Penn Foster, I'm just not very okay having that on my transcript. Personal preference. If it comes down to it I can always take the Finance course at COSC, if they offer one. The way my advisor explained things to me, as long as they know when that credit will be completed, they can schedule you for the Capstone. It may be different for Business, but I kind of doubt it.

Alright, off to make my own thread before I wreck this one more!

ETA: I'm using the Term system at COSC strategically to get this done, just like I'm doing with my BA. I can take the one class I need one term and the Capstone the next. Still counts as half-time for the whole semester. Just wasn't sure if that was clear.

[KittenMittens]

I was planning to use MGMT 499 as one of my two classes for partial financial aid. The way they explained my current Capstone to me is that I could only take it once I had 6 credits left to take in my concentration. Since I can't start really hardcore testing out until I graduate with my BA, that leaves me a very small, but I think doable window in which to test out of all the pre-reqs for the BSBA Capstone. If they are adding Bus. Stats. and Bus. Law to make the major, and taking nothing away, that leaves me quite a few options of things I can test out of now.

Adding those two classes gives us a major with 42 credits, and the 6 credits of Micro-Macroeconomics they have listed under the heading of "Pre-Requisites".
According to the Catalog:

"To earn a second baccalaureate degree in a major other than General Studies, a student must:

• obtain approval from the Director of Admissions;
  
• earn a minimum of 30 semester credits subsequent to the award of the initial degree; 15 of which must be upper level in the new major;
  
• meet all of the requirements of the major.
  

So I need 30 fresh credits, 15 of which are UL. That means if this major works the way I hope it does, I can test out of 18 credits before I even graduate with my BA. 42 major credits+6 pre-reqs-30 after degree= 18

So I could do this:

Prerequisites:
• ACC 101: Financial Accounting - CLEP
• ACC 102: Managerial Accounting [B]- UExcel
[/B] • FIN 210: Financial Management [B]- UExcel
[/B]• ITE 101: Management Information Systems [B]- CLEP
[/B] • MGT 101: Principles of Management [B]- CLEP
[/B]• MGT 315: Organizational Behavior
• MKT 220: Principles of Marketing [B]- CLEP
[/B]• ENG 101: English Composition 1 [B]- Transfer
[/B]• ENG 102: English Composition 2 [B]- Transfer

[/B]Or I could leave off Principles of Management and Principles of Marketing until I graduate Dec. 31, since those two exams are known to be easy, and CLEP out of Micro and Macroeconomics. Basically get as many LL requirements out of the way as possible.

For Organizational Behavior, you’re going to want to do the UExcel version, as well as UExcel Labor Relations and UExcel Human Resource Management since they’re all related to each other and all common sense/have a lot of prep materials available. You can also do the UExcel Business Ethics exam.

I hear what you're saying about Penn Foster, I'm just not very okay having that on my transcript. Personal preference. If it comes down to it I can always take the Finance course at COSC, if they offer one. The way my advisor explained things to me, as long as they know when that credit will be completed, they can schedule you for the Capstone. It may be different for Business, but I kind of doubt it.

That said, that’s totally fine if you don’t want to do Penn Foster courses. Keep in mind with the UExcel Finance exam there are no InstantCert materials, or discussions, and finance tends to be more mathematical in general. If the UExcel doesn’t work out, make sure you find a good instructor using ratemyprofessors.com.

ETA: I'm using the Term system at COSC strategically to get this done, just like I'm doing with my BA. I can take the one class I need one term and the Capstone the next. Still counts as half-time for the whole semester. Just wasn't sure if that was clear.[/QUOTE]

I’m a little confused. So you are currently pursuing a degree in general studies in business concentration and you intend to get that before July? If you’re pursuing a degree and you want the business administration degree, why does the extra new 30 credits and new 15 UL credits matter if it’s basically the same thing.

Alright, off to make my own thread before I wreck this one more!

No, it's fine you can leave it in this thread. It helps keep all the information consolidated for anyone who stumbles on it in the future.

[Tedium]

I am about to graduate with my BA concentration in English. So, the BSBA would be my second Bachelors. I am literally 6 credits away from the BA in English, the Capstone and one more COSC course, and while I could just stop in my tracks and pursue the BSBA I want the BA in English for personal reasons. It's been 7 years in the making and it would feel awful to abandon it now. Since that's the case, I'm having to wait until graduation (Dec. 31st) to start testing out of my BSBA in earnest. And I'll also have to work within the restrictions of getting a second Bachelors at COSC, meaning I have to earn 30 cr(15UL) after the graduation date of my first degree (Dec. 31st).

So, that means that timing and planning for this are everything. I need to be able to leave 30cr(15UL) for completion after Dec 31st. That's why I left the Organizational Behavior blank in my list above, because that's 3 UL credits I can save for after Dec. 31st. What I can do before Dec. 31st is test out of the 18 credits extra that the major will require, most of those being LL credits.

I'm sorry my situation wasn't clear before. I have a bad habit of assuming people are following my exact thought process when they sometimes lack all of the relevant information. That's a bad habit I'm trying to break and it seems even worse when people are trying to help me.

My plan:

Before Dec. 31st
Financial Accounting - CLEP - 3cr
Managerial Accounting - UExcel - 3cr
Macroeconomics - CLEP - 3cr
Microeconomics - CLEP - 3cr
Information Technology - CLEP - 3cr
Principles of Finance - UExcel - 3cr
Total - 18cr

After Dec. 31st
Business Stats. - ALEKS - 3cr
Business Law - CLEP - 3cr
Principles of Marketing - CLEP - 3cr
Principles of Management - CLEP - 3cr
***
(12 UL Business credits)
Business Ethics(If there is no duplication with Ethics already taken) - UExcel - 3cr UL
Human Resource Management - UExcel - 3cr UL
Labor Relations - UExcel - 3cr UL
COSC Course - 3cr UL
***
Organizational Behavior - UEXcel - 3cr UL
Capstone - 3cr UL
Total - 30cr

Grand Total - 48cr

[KittenMittens]

I am about to graduate with my BA concentration in English. So, the BSBA would be my second Bachelors. I am literally 6 credits away from the BA in English, the Capstone and one more COSC course, and while I could just stop in my tracks and pursue the BSBA I want the BA in English for personal reasons. It's been 7 years in the making and it would feel awful to abandon it now. Since that's the case, I'm having to wait until graduation (Dec. 31st) to start testing out of my BSBA in earnest. And I'll also have to work within the restrictions of getting a second Bachelors at COSC, meaning I have to earn 30 cr(15UL) after the graduation date of my first degree (Dec. 31st).

So, that means that timing and planning for this are everything. I need to be able to leave 30cr(15UL) for completion after Dec 31st. That's why I left the Organizational Behavior blank in my list above, because that's 3 UL credits I can save for after Dec. 31st. What I can do before Dec. 31st is test out of the 18 credits extra that the major will require, most of those being LL credits.

I'm sorry my situation wasn't clear before. I have a bad habit of assuming people are following my exact thought process when they sometimes lack all of the relevant information. That's a bad habit I'm trying to break and it seems even worse when people are trying to help me.

My plan:

Before Dec. 31st
Financial Accounting - CLEP - 3cr
Managerial Accounting - UExcel - 3cr
Macroeconomics - CLEP - 3cr
Microeconomics - CLEP - 3cr
Information Technology - CLEP - 3cr
Principles of Finance - UExcel - 3cr
Total - 18cr
After Dec. 31st
Business Stats. - ALEKS - 3cr
Business Law - CLEP - 3cr
***
(12 UL Business credits)
Business Ethics(If there is no duplication with Ethics already taken) - UExcel - 3cr UL
Human Resource Management - UExcel - 3cr UL
Labor Relations - UExcel - 3cr UL
COSC Course - 3cr UL
***
Organizational Behavior - UEXcel - 3cr UL
Capstone - 3cr UL

Ah I see when you said BA I thought you meant Business Administration. BA in English then. Ok, so I think I see what you’re saying. The problem is that you feel like you can’t start working on the new 30 credits (15 of which are upper level) until you graduate. Can you explain your situation to the advisor, registrar, and/or Provost? I don’t think you should be forbidden from doing the new credits that are completely unrelated to the BA in English. They’re generally pretty good about making exceptions if you explain your situation. Considering that these business electives have absolutely nothing to do with the BA in English, I think you stand a reasonable chance of being able to do it.

Plus, can’t you make the argument that you “earned a minimum of 30 semester credits subsequent to the award of the initial degree; 15 of which must be upper level in the new major” once you transferred the credits in after December 31st?

I don’t see why the college would deny those credits if you explain it to them properly. Why should you be precluded from taking the credits whenever you want?

I’ll give you a hint about COSC - they don’t know or carefully follow every requirement from the website’s rules and policies. They didn’t want to transfer my English in from India, but because English is an official language of India, I was able to argue successfully that I could transfer them in. When I showed them the proof from the website (which they begrudgingly conceded), they did it. Also, my old financial accounting course from 20 years ago, I was able to convince them to make an exception.

In any case, if I were in your position, I would very clearly and resolutely push to be able to take as many exams whenever you want - all 48 credits even before December 31st (I get that you’re saying you can do 18 credits right now because the remaining 30 credits will be fresh after December 31st). Talk to your advisor, and possibly even the Proovst. I would hammer that point through email (GET IT IN WRITING), because that’s a silly/absurd requirement. I believe you can argue the technicality that you “did” any exams after you transfer them in after December 31st. For example, you took UExcel Human Resource Management on November 30th 2015, but you didn’t transfer it into the college until January 2, 2016 or something.

I would be shocked if they denied you the ability to get a 2nd degree simply because you got the credits before then. I mean what if you just had completed a lot of general business electives say like 24 credits like principles of marketing, management, financial accounting, managerial accounting, and microeconomics, and macroeconomics, finance, organizational behavior, and business law 10 years ago. Are they really going to deny those being a part of the new major considering they're needed for the degree? I highly doubt it.

Actually, the more I read into it, I think the reason why they mention a “subsequent” 15 UL and 30 Credits overall is because any new major/concentration would have you do 15 UL credits (12 credits in UL concentration/major electives and the 3 credit capstone which is upper level). Most students in your position are not able to start on a 2nd degree while working on the first as it’s assumed you don’t have the time, energy, or motivation, etc. to be working on the 2nd one.

Whatever the case, I think it’s worth explaining, and I think your chances are good. As long as you get written (e-mail) confirmation that you’re ok to start working on as many requirements before December 31st, 2015 (i.e. more than 18 credits and as much/many needed i.e. 48 credits), you’ll be fine to do as many credits you please before December 31st.

Besides the question of when you can take the courses, your degree plan for the BS in Business Administration looks fine. Don't forget that you want to include Principles of Marketing and Management as well.

[Tedium]

I added those two courses. Thanks.

I spoke to someone in the registrar's office this afternoon, explained the situation, and was told with a great deal of certainty that I could not begin earning credits for the new degree until I graduated with the first. I specifically asked about the possibility of taking exams and was told no. I was told that they would still award me credits for anything earned before first graduation, but that those credits would not count toward the 30 new credits requirement. That confirms that it is an issue of when the credits were earned and not just that they are 30 differing credits. If I weren't transferring in everything else, it would not be such a big deal. It's the fact that I only need 48 more that makes it so frustrating and noticable. I think I'm just in a weird situation, like you said. Not many people run into problems like this. Only people trying to test out of their degrees.

I will take your advice and see where e-mailing will get me. It's not like it could do any harm. I'll keep everyone posted.

[Tedium]

Concurrent Degree Policy - Charter Oak State College Catalog

Since they make exceptions for other institutions, why wouldn't they for themselves?

[ajs1976]

Tedium,

I thought of two things about your plan. sorry if these have already been discussed already.

You mentioned using financial aid for MGT499. Will you still qualify for undergrad financial aid after completing your BA in English? It was a question on my financial aid application from last spring and I had the impression that it would not be allowed or limited in some way.

Have you talked to your adviser about delaying graduation for your first degree and becoming a double major as a way to eliminate the requirements to completely the 2nd major requirements after the first? I can understand not wanting to delay the first degree and the combination of both a BS and a BA might not allow that to work.

EDIT: I somehow missed your last two posts before replying. My second point will not work because of a BS and BA. http://www.charteroak.edu/catalog/curren..._major.cfm