Taxes?

[EI2HCB]

Hospitals arent run by the government, though ryoder. I just posted an eye-popping article on health care costs, I think you'd like it. If medicine is privatized, it becomes this terrible form of capitalism where the buyer has no choice and no power. WHen you have an emergency you don't have time to really choose which hospital you go to. The government, however, has this power as a large buyer. For example, if you paid a 100$ "chargemaster" price for advil, medicare would have likely paid 10 dollars for it. It's much more than in a shop, but still considerably less than you as a powerless buyer could negotiate. In countries with more nationalized health care costs are lower, not higher, because of this very principle. The US government spends more money (per capita) than any nation in the world on health care, and people still have to often pay out of pocket. It's gotten ridiculous and needs to stop.

I'm sorry to say that prices with nationalised health services aren't always lower,
two personal examples: hearing loss in my left ear currently waiting for a hearing test with the government doctor, so far I've been waiting two years!
(it costs less to administer their office because they don't address the workload this keeps costs low)

Lower spine problem: collapsing every twenty feet, wait time for an MRI took nine months that's a lot of falling over! one MRI funded by taxes for a whole county costs less but doesn't help to heal people.

Costs to do these tests privately might be less but then in Ireland our taxes are higher too! Free markets always allow us to choose and not have to wait for the taxpayer to pay for our treatment. I was poor and unemployed and so didn't have the choice but if I had a job I wouldn't have waited nine months for an MRI so government control over taxes or healthcare is not always up to standard of a business

[merolpn]

Hospitals arent run by the government, though ryoder.

This is a good thing. Expect it to get much worse if they do. The government here isn't exactly on the cutting edge of efficiency. Any business that considers money that they are not going to spend as a "reduction" even though they are actually spending more, wouldn't last a week in the real world. With government running the show, that $100 Advil will become a $2.00 Advil with $300 of administrative costs added on to the end of the bill. So then the price of the Advil would go down $98 "officially" and the $300 of administrative costs will get blurred behind different cost codes leading most people to believe the price went down. Then the next year at the budget meetings the price of the Advil will drop to $1.80 but those pesky administrative costs won't go up 20 cents, they will go up $50. But hey, the price of Advil dropped and so it will continue until the administrative costs are $1,000 and they decide" what the heck, just give the Advil away." And the uneducated masses will claim that the government did a great job because now they get free Advil!

I would rather pay $100 for the Advil than have the government give it away.

[OE800_85]

I think the wool has been pulled over our eyes. The majority of nonprofit hospitals, for example, are extremely profitable. They can make in excess of 200 million per year, with a board of executives each making millions per year. Let's not forget the kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies, medical supply companies, and equipment manufacturers. Please, read this article. You'll be blown away by what people pay. Also, if you think the hospital system is a free market, you're only fooling yourself. When we need medical care, we don't consider all our options and then look at the bill, and go down the street and compare that with others. The majority of health care is emergency, and patients usually don't see a bill until it's all over. This isn't a free market. It's a market where the providers have all the power, and can arbitrarily charge anything they want. A single day operation, how about $87,000? The exact same procedure, billed to medicare, probably $10,000. Read the Time article and you'll know what I'm talking about. It's mind blowing.

Also, this article I posted is not partisan. The author is often quite critical of Obamacare. His call is for transparency and regulations on health care costs, not socialized medicare (in case you were wondering)

Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us | TIME.com

[merolpn]

I think the wool has been pulled over our eyes. The majority of nonprofit hospitals, for example, are extremely profitable. They can make in excess of 200 million per year, with a board of executives each making millions per year.

I think you need to take the wool off of yours, my friend. What is wrong with a hospital making money? What is wrong with the top guy making 1.8 million? The women's basketball coach at UCONN earns $1.6 million. Do you think that he should manage the whole hospital for free? I think he should make much more than a basketball coach. In fact I think this poor guy is getting ripped off because the men's coach at UCONN earned $2.3 MIL before he retired!!! This is preposterous.

Take a look at how the staff of UCONN medical gets paid compared to COACHES! This one is older, their salaries went up.
http://www.yankeeinstitute.org/2011/03/1...r-in-2010/

[OE800_85]

The difference is that they are by definition a nonprofit hospital. There is no corporate income tax. It would be great if they were a true business operating for profit. There are many for profit hospitals. I'm not talking about those. But when what is by definition supposed to be a charity, keeping profits in the hundreds of millions and hiding from taxes, pretending to be a benevolent force in the community, I have a problem with it.

[merolpn]

Non-profit doesn't always mean break-even. This is an issue with the corporate tax code, not healthcare. But at least we are back on taxes.

[OE800_85]

So, essentially they cannot give dividends to investors, but for some strange reason, they can offer multi-million dollar salaries to their administrators (while relatively giving little to doctors and nurses and other key staff) and use these monstrous profits to buy up other hospitals and practices, spiraling up into an empire, killing the small businessman (doctors who own their own practice are becoming fewer and fewer) making them more powerful to charge more money since insurance companies have to provide care at a convenient number of hospitals. If this were a real business, I'd have my reservations about it. Perhaps I wouldn't totally agree, but in principle think its legal. But this is a necessary service, one that should be nonprofit, that gets unbelievable tax breaks and incentives. They are screwing us over, plain and simple.

As well, a lot of the reason why we overspend on healthcare is the power of healthcare lobbyists who ensure regulation against Medicare and such doesn't happen. Estimates say (on prescription drugs alone) we would save as much as 40% simply by having the same laws and regulations of other developed countries in the world. Not to mention this disgusting culture of over medicating. One of the driving forces of this is the profit incentive pharmaceutical companies have in America. They make astronomical profits here while the margins are much much smaller abroad.

[NumberSix]

I disagree with almost every policy of the United States government. I believe taxation is theft. What’s worse, the money I am forced to contribute goes towards murdering innocent people, as well as supporting despotic governments abroad. I view the leadership of the United States as a bunch of sociopaths and the government is no different than the mafia. I never agreed to be a part of this system and it has no authority other than the barrel of a gun.

[Daithi]

I grew up as a Navy brat and I'm an Army veteran, so I have experience with VA hospitals. I've also worked as a programmer in the healthcare industry for over 20 years. Trust me when I tell you that government run hospitals are atrocious when compared to private run hospitals. Just imagine the Dept. of Motor Vehicles running your hospital.

Additionally, much of the bureaucratic inefficiencies in private hospitals is the fault of government and programs like medicare and medicaid. The government partially runs hospitals via regulations. One of the reasons private insurance has gone up so high is because hospitals and other provides are forced to pass along medicare/caid costs by raising what they charge private insurances to make up for underpayment from medicare/caid. There other option is to drop or not take anymore medicare/caid patients which they do as well.

As far as taxes go, I think it is nuts that we send 50% of our income to the government. Plus, every dollar sent to the government is a dollar taken out of our economic engine. It is no different than owning a small business and taking money out of your business to spend on things like cars and houses. Every dollar taken out of your business is a dollar that can't be used to expand/improve your business. Oh, there is one difference, if you own a business then the business' money is your money, but the government doesn't have an intrinsic right to half of our income. Even worse, is the money the government spends that they don't have. The debt they keep piling up gets placed on our back, and the backs of the next generation who gets no say in the matter. Lastly, the government has taken to just printing massive quantities of money. Just wait until inflation raises its ugly head -- which the stalled housing market has been masking.

I'm not blasting Democrats because the only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that the Republicans know that high taxes, massive spending, borrowing, and printing of money is wrong, but when they're in power they do it too.

[Publius]

I'm not blasting Democrats because the only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that the Republicans know that high taxes, massive spending, massive borrowing, and massive printing of money is wrong but they do it too when their in power and they don't stop it when they could either.

I thought the only difference was spelling.