Masters in Healthcare Admin or certificate?? Any ideas or suggestions??

[sanantone]

The article about the graduate with a BSN also shoots down the argument that you have to be willing to move where the jobs are. She applied for jobs in 5 different states.
I can't find a nursing job! - Where's this so-called shortage? (1) - CNNMoney

[marianne202]

Contrary to popular belief there isn't a nursing shortage anymore. Most nursing schools have been asked to cut down on the number of student they are graduating. The largest growth in the near future will be geriatric nursing and the necessary CNA's and patient care techs. Hospitals are shutting down or leasing sections of their hospitals as we have transitioned to outpatient care. It takes far less nurses to take care of patients when they aren't in the hospital, but treated outpatient. There will be a need for nurses in the coming decade as the average age of working nurses is 40, but due to the rapid rise in the number of nursing graduates it outpaced the available positions. Most hospitals have moved some of the duties of nurses to CNA's, LPN's, Med Techs and Patient Care Techs. It saves them money and was supposed to relieve overworked nurses. I'm not sure it did that, but I do know hospitals just aren't hiring. If they do they either hire new nurses who they can pay less or they only want experienced nurses. I think hospitals are going through some massive changes right now and as such they are afraid to spend too much on nursing staff. A lot of our nursing graduates can't find jobs either. It will shift, but it may take a few years. After 30 yrs in this business I have seen this type of shift before. It will come back around.

[bsinsc]

Ya'll are great! I really appreciate the replies and advice!

Sanantone, At least here in SC LPN's do not make much more than CMA's. My best friend is an LPN. In fact, we even job shared at one time. We had the same exact duties in a peds office and both made $15/hr. Now that was 10 years ago. I have done my research here in SC and find that CNA's make $9-$12/hr, CMA's $12-$15/hr and LPN's $14-$17/hr. I have looked into the alternate taching certification. We have a big push for Teach for America here. They will help you get your teaching certificate, but in turn you have to give them 2 years of teaching in a failing school. There is another route here called PACE. I think their setup is about the same. I know that I never want to teach children, so that's why I never really considered it. I do think it would be good to have the certification and it would teach me how to teach, but I don't need it to teach adults at the local vocational schools. Another friend of mine does teach at one and loves it. However, she is a Masters level teacher and that is her passion. She makes good $ but says that it really is not a lot compared to the hours she spends preparing and grading.

Marianne, I have thought about getting a coding certification. I hear there is good $ in it even all by itself. I am a bit confused as to which certification is the best. I think there are 3 levels. I have tried to get more info. on this, but I don't know anyone that does this for a living. As for the RN, Excelsior is not an option. Some years ago they had a CMA to RN option, but they discontinued the program. I even petitioned the Director of the program to at least sit through the class to prove myself, but was denied. You have to be an LPN or paramedic to be admitted at this time. Believe me, I've looked into getting one of those just to bridge to RN, but the time and $ is really not worth it.

I have heard about new RN's having a hard time finding jobs. One of my neighbors graduated in 2010 with her RN and looked for only a month before finding a job. She has a great job w benefits at the VA. Most of her classmates took jobs in the pool to get their feet wet. Now, here in SC there are quite a lot of medical facilities and they all have a list of RN jobs available. Now, they did have a hiring freeze until recently. I agree that this might be the case as they definitely continue to hire less qualified people to do a lot of the jobs in a hospital.

I guess my big dilemma is $. I just don't want to be in this rut forever. It feels like forever now. I just want a better life for myself and family. If I keep on making $25k a year, I will never have anything and be miserable. My life has changed so drastically from where I was 2 years ago and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. I know there is no easy fix, but I'm just trying to find some way to make a decent living......Keep the ideas coming!

[marianne202]

BSISC, I sent you a PM.

[cookderosa]

there are several valuable contributors who have given you great advice, I hope you listen, because these people have a truly altruistic heart. Plus, what I'm going to say isn't going to be as encouraging.

While I know nothing about you or your community or your history, what I do have a lot of experience with is teaching adults. This won't seem relevant at first, bear with me. When I went to culinary school, I was in a group of fellow 17-18 year olds. We were "traditional" in age, but EVERYONE was. I attended a school that attracted young people. Later, when I started teaching at the community college, I was 22 and had many semesters early on where the majority of my students were older than I was. CCs attract non-trads in general. As time went on, more and more students were non-traditionally aged, in fact, the demographics of my last class were considerably weighted toward the older (28-35) student, and most on their second career. Over the past two decades, I've even had the pleasure of teaching a few RETIRED persons in my class. So, guess what I've learned about teaching adults?

Adults are better students. They are more focused, better at doing homework, give 100% and almost always attend class promptly. Adults have EXCELLENT transferable skills.

You know what else? They have a HARD TIME accepting that they have to start at the bottom too. They almost always feel that "time served" in another career somehow transfers over into this new career. The thing is, if it takes 2 years of schooling + 2 years in entry level cooking + 2 years in line cooking + 2 years as a sous chef before you're ready to jump in and become "A CHEF" then that's what it takes. It takes that path whether or not you're 15 or 35. The fact is, most restaurant workers will tell you the same thing "I was washing dishes at age 14" and that's usually true. Many people do a lot of entry level stuff BEFORE starting school. So sometimes, it's confusing to see a 21-22 year old as the chef of a restaurant, especially when he's only been out of culinary school a couple years. But, a lot of times, their "time served" WAS in industry, and working in industry builds street cred. In order to run a kitchen (or a hospital?) you need some street cred. You need to be in the trenches working alongside your peers, and only then can you earn their respect. Look up the bios of the admin at your hospital, or nursing home or wherever. MOST are going to have RN or MD along side their masters degree letters. It's just kinda the way it is.

The fastest way to the top is to start at the bottom and bust a nut.

[GoodYellowDogs]

I echo this. The bottom line is to make a decision, start and get moving - in 5 years from now you want to have better opportunities and that happens by starting now.

The other thing is that nursing is a good profession and there will be jobs. A lot of nurses who would have retired 5 years ago are still holding on due to the economy. However, if you look at the national statistics, the working nurses are really closing in on retirement. This means that there will be a shortage due to the retirements and due to the baby boomers getting old and needing more health services. I know that it varies by area, but there are nursing jobs out there - even for new grads. In fact, many hospitals have new grad programs to acclimate the new grads to the actual practice of hospital nursing. Before you finish nursing school get as many "informational interviews" as possible with the managers on different units, floors, departments, etc. Sometimes knowing hiring managers is the only way to get it.

Medical coding is also a good place to go. So call your local hospital, as to speak with the coding supervisor and ask if she would be willing to do an informational interview with you so that you can learn about the field. HMOs, PPOs and insurance companies also hire medical coders. You can usually find a job with a temp agency once you have your coding training and that will help you get your foot in the door and get on-the-job-experience.

there are several valuable contributors who have given you great advice, I hope you listen, because these people have a truly altruistic heart. Plus, what I'm going to say isn't going to be as encouraging.

While I know nothing about you or your community or your history, what I do have a lot of experience with is teaching adults. This won't seem relevant at first, bear with me. When I went to culinary school, I was in a group of fellow 17-18 year olds. We were "traditional" in age, but EVERYONE was. I attended a school that attracted young people. Later, when I started teaching at the community college, I was 22 and had many semesters early on where the majority of my students were older than I was. CCs attract non-trads in general. As time went on, more and more students were non-traditionally aged, in fact, the demographics of my last class were considerably weighted toward the older (28-35) student, and most on their second career. Over the past two decades, I've even had the pleasure of teaching a few RETIRED persons in my class. So, guess what I've learned about teaching adults?

Adults are better students. They are more focused, better at doing homework, give 100% and almost always attend class promptly. Adults have EXCELLENT transferable skills.

You know what else? They have a HARD TIME accepting that they have to start at the bottom too. They almost always feel that "time served" in another career somehow transfers over into this new career. The thing is, if it takes 2 years of schooling + 2 years in entry level cooking + 2 years in line cooking + 2 years as a sous chef before you're ready to jump in and become "A CHEF" then that's what it takes. It takes that path whether or not you're 15 or 35. The fact is, most restaurant workers will tell you the same thing "I was washing dishes at age 14" and that's usually true. Many people do a lot of entry level stuff BEFORE starting school. So sometimes, it's confusing to see a 21-22 year old as the chef of a restaurant, especially when he's only been out of culinary school a couple years. But, a lot of times, their "time served" WAS in industry, and working in industry builds street cred. In order to run a kitchen (or a hospital?) you need some street cred. You need to be in the trenches working alongside your peers, and only then can you earn their respect. Look up the bios of the admin at your hospital, or nursing home or wherever. MOST are going to have RN or MD along side their masters degree letters. It's just kinda the way it is.

The fastest way to the top is to start at the bottom and bust a nut.

[bsinsc]

Thanks again for the suggestions. Yes, I know I need to get moving doing something. I agree wholeheartedly to that! I just don't want to go down the wrong path ie; one that leads to another dead end job.

Good Yellow Dogs: I wish there was a school nearby that I could get into in a timely manner in order to get the RN. Again, that has eluded me for years. There are 3 schools here. 1 is a CC so only offer ADN and has a 2 year wait. The main one is a major univ. that only takes 50 students every 6 months. It's highly competitive and students come from all over the US. They usually have close to a thousand apps for those 50 spots. I talked to them at length and it doesn't look promising. The last resort here is another small univ that has a BSN program and they have looked over my transcripts and have advised me that I would need to start from scratch with everything. They do not recognize Clep's or DSST's. The only other option for me is nursing school through TESC which starts every October in NJ. It is a 1 year program which is great. However, I don't know how I could move to NJ for that year. I have a 12 year old who is finally doing well in the middle school he is in after years of therapy and counseling. I have researched the hell out of nursing school to no avail. I will definitely look into the coding. I really know nothing about it or how it works, so will see if I can talk to someone in that field.

Cookderosa: Thanks for your reply. I do get what you are saying about teaching adult students. I do think some of them do want to learn. Although, I have to say that I hear absolute horror stories from my friend who teaches psych and career development at one of the voc schools here. Things like students being arrested frequently,major emotional/family issues, lots of trying to track down students who have not shown up in weeks. I really think you have to be a very special person to deal with these things. It sounds like it goes way beyond just teaching a subject. With that being said, I really appreciate your help last year when we corresponded. You really helped me to put a plan together to get my BA at TESC. I do understand what you are saying about time served, etc. Again, I do have 7 years experience in the medical office setting as a CMA. I also have 2 years experience as a CNA (now they call it a patient care tech) in hospital and home health. I do hear you when you talk about working in the trenches and I have done that. I have heard this from various friends as well. However, their point of view is different because they have the luxury of pursuing what they want to do professionally because they have significant spousal income. Personally, my husband and I have gone through such an upheaval in our circumstances in the past 2 years that it has been overwhelming. Not to complain, but we lost our house, a car and can compete with just about any country song. And over Christmas his pay, which is not a lot to begin with, was cut by 10%. So, when I say I have to figure this out I am not kidding. It just so difficult to try and put together what I have into something significant.

In the meantime, I started a petition for increased pay and recognition for medical assistants. I would appreciate it if you would take a moment to sign it.
SignOn.org - Increased Pay/Recognition for Medical Assistants

Again, thanks for all the replies!

[rebel100]

I understand your concerns about choosing the LPN path...but consider that you can likely find a program at a vo-tech that's easier to enter than an RN program....and you can use Excelsior's LPN to RN bridge to get the RN. I suspect that if you get a little lucky with timing you can have the RN credential via this route in <2 years.

Just throwing that out there as an alternative to the traditional RN route.

You could then jump to the Western Governors for an MSN which you could complete in 12-18 months. 3-4 years out your pay is around 50K and your applying for the nurse manager jobs that will be considerably more lucrative.

Despite the rumors of plenty of nurses, this route is perhaps the most certain I know of (is there any certainty left?) that can lead to this kind of pay.

Of course, it's a tough road full of what if's. But it would provide the flexibility to still work while going to school...and the long term benefits are awesome.

[clep3705]

How much nursing school costs is determined by how long you are there. If you ask the question how many students graduate on time, you will not receive a truthful answer. That's because the accreditation agencies consider on time graduation to be within 150%. In other words, if you take 6 semesters to complete a 4 semester long degree, then you made it in 150% of the scheduled time, so you are officially on time. But it is a lot more expensive to be there longer. Taking longer is common.

At one of the schools tied for 21st place in the nation, about 30% of the students do not graduate in the scheduled 4 semesters. This school takes only about the top 10% of the applicant pool. Many, many already have a bachelor's degree or higher. About 5% flunk out completely. At the lowest ranked BSN program in Texas, only about 50% of the students graduate. It has one of the few remaining 12 month long BSN programs in the nation. Most schools stopped offering 12 month BSNs because the graduation rates are so low.

If you ask about NCLEX pass rates, you will not receive a truthful answer. Most schools require students to take an exit examination near the very end of school. Different exam vendors have different exams. A popular one is called the exit HESI. Students who don't do well on the comprehensive exit exam aren't allowed to graduate. That's why even sorry nursing schools have high NCLEX pass rates - only those who graduate get to take the NCLEX. Weak students are denied graduation.

[sanantone]

One thing about Excelsior's program is that it does not qualify for federal financial aid because it's test-based. You have to take out private student loans to fund the program. There are less protections with private student loans if you are temporarily unable to pay them back for whatever reason. Since Excelsior's website is down right now for maintenance, I can't verify if the loan program they work with has variable interest rates. I know many other private student loans do. I think Excelsior offers some scholarships, though. You also have to verify if Excelsior's program qualifies for licensure in your state. Some states do not recognize the degree.