New theory: PREVIOUS generations had a sense of entitlement

[skyfall123]

That is why I started this thread, to raise that question. Did the 20 somethings 30-50 years ago have a sense of entitlement that bothered the older workers of that time period?

In my opinion yes they did. I think if you ask the boomers "how or why" they feel their generation had a sense of entitlement, you may get some interesting answers. I might add that the same probably goes for the millennials.

[brothert69]

Just because not everyone was a union worker in those old days does not mean that generation didn't have a sense of entitlement at least as bad as the millenials. That is why I started this thread, to raise that question. Did the 20 somethings 30-50 years ago have a sense of entitlement that bothered the older workers of that time period? I believe they did, because like I said earlier people are people, no matter what the year on the calender. When I joined the service 8 years ago I frequently heard the 'old salts' complain about the low quality and bad attitudes of the new Sailors fresh out of boot. Now here I am an NCO and my fellow NCOs make the same complaints about the new kids. I think every generation likes to overlook their own flaws, past and present, and put down the new folks coming up. In the Military, outside the Military, it does not matter - the new 'kids' are always inferior in the eyes of the established.

I knew I was opening a can of worms when I brought up unions. Passions run high on both sides of the debate. I do enjoy a good debate, but perhaps I hijacked my own thread when I used the 'U' word which is now distracting from the point.

I apologize for jacking your thread. When I see anything negative about unions I'm like a bull seeing red. It's a subject that I'm passionate about and that hits close to home (my stepfather has 40 years in the CWA). I will concede that there are bad/corrupt unions and union officials but I feel that on the whole unions are a positive thing for working people and their families.

Back to the main point of your thread I agree with you that older generations feel the newer generations have entitlement issues. It's an unavoidable consequence of competition. The older generation has been on whatever job for x period of time and see the new generation coming in "trying to take their jobs." It has always been and will always be. Overall the people that are ultimately successful are the ones that simply do the best job they can do and let their reputation speak for them.

[MomOfMany]

It was after 2am when I posted, so I will relook to be sure again.

I was surfing around on Wikipedia researching communities that I was considering accepting employment in (I'm leaving the Navy soon). Anyway one of the towns, Safford Arizona, is evidently famous for a large miners strike in 1983 that was ultimately busted. The defeat was viewed as the beginning of the end for a lot of unions out west. I began reading about labor relations and unions when a thought came to mind: unions use to be huge, especially in the boomer generation, and in some parts of the country still are.

It was viewed as the beginning of the end bc until that point it was nearly a universal understood that mining was a prime example of how important and necessary unions were. So for a mining union to be busted was a HUGE deal.

Could it be argued that these union workers from years ago, an entire generation of people, had a sense of entitlement that far exceeds the perceived sense of entitlement attributed to millenials?

I read "these" as miner specific. It appears I probably shouldn't have. We need to discuss entitlement. Were they entitled to what they were asking for or not? Are you saying they put too much value on their work or not?

Here is a generation of folks that thought they deserved a high paying job, excellent benefits, a fat retirement pension, and job security all without attaining higher education.

This is where I picked up what I perceived as you thinking a degree is or should be a requirement for the previous mentioned items. If not, what does higher education have to do with it? Normally it doesn't have anything to do with it. The high paying job, benefits, retirement and security are usually (or should be) proportional to the demand, risk, and pool of candidates for the job. For example, coal miners need a bigger retirement pension. They often are not able to work in the mines until 70 and when they retire, they usually have health issues for the rest of their lives. Blue collar work in general does take a heavier toll on those doing the work than white collar work.

Why do they deserve these things? Because they graduated high school and joined a union? Now we are stuck with the legacy: almost non-existant cargo shipping under the American flag and an auto industry that is trying to come back from the brink. Fat union paychecks, benefits, and legacy healthcare costs cripple our auto industry.

Are these realities the result of the sense of entitlement that the boomers had?

They deserve it because it is the right thing to do. Because they graduated high school and spent their most physically fit years doing back breaking labor that no one else wanted to do so we could have cheaper cars and many other things that none of us want to do without.

Our auto industry was crippled bc we want a cheap car but workers want to be able to pay a decent mortgage and go to the dentist once a year and crooked unions didn't work for their members and bc in America - we refuse to treat our average citizen like they do in India! Companies didn't send job to India bc America cost too much. They sent jobs to India because India is dirt freaking cheap and they have a constant slave labor wages option there. Are you saying we should imitate India and China in how we treat our average worker? Are you saying our workers (and india/chin's too for that matter) aren't entitled to better?

Again.

Entitlement has two meanings.
Legitimate right to something.
And a false sense of rights that are not actual rights.

Which are we discussing?

Personally I think a false sense of what we have a "right" to is generational for the last 80 years or so. Society, govt, and businesses pushed that we have rights, we deserve, certain things because it encouraged the populace to spend their money or go into debt in those areas. However, now it is backfiring bc there isn't money for it but a few generations now have been told they have a right to demand these things and are continuing to do so.

[frankiebleyes]

"Sense of entitlement"? Really!!!!! Evidentently you didn't hear of a little thing called World War II. Personally, I'm 61, never been in a union or had a family member in a union, but I'm sick of all this crap about entitlements. What it all boils down to is now that the baby boomers are getting old, society doesn't want to support them. I've lost my retirement due to illness, I've lost one of my children due to war. I've lost my health and don't feel entitled to anything, but I sure deplore the fact that our society thinks it is okay to hurt our most vulnerable members, mentally ill, elderly and young. Seems like in my study of history other societies did the same for these groups and look how they ended up. YUP wait till next Wednesday, let's see how many social security recipients can't eat or buy medicine. Somehow I don't see them as entitled, just old and worked all their lives. I'm one of them.

[Maniac Craniac]

My generation understands that we are nameless and faceless to organizations that employ us. Why not jump to another company to advance ourselves? It's called looking out for yourself in a cut throat world.

I assume that by "your" generation, you mean the same generation as me. Truthfully, our generation sucks. I don't see why you would bother defending it.

[ryoder]

Don't let Obama scare you. Social security checks will go out. That is the typical liberal fear tactics at work. Any time a republican or conservative cuts back a little on spending or reduces taxes a bit, the democrats say that they have to fire police and firefighters in local politics or cut social security and medicare at the federal level. Don't think a politician, or a president can lie to you? Look at Clinton, one of America's most beloved politicians ever. He lied every day of his administration "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

So yeah a lot of us feel entitled. I say none of us are entitled to anything except what the constitution affords us. The idea that I should have my health insurance paid by you guys is ludicrous.

Kids, take care of your elders. Make sure they are taken care of because the government and the hospitals will not do it. Don't believe me? Go to the hospital and see for yourself. Our older generation deserves respect, care and admiration. But it won't come from the feds.

[Lindagerr]

My grandfather lost part of his hand working on Good Friday because he had to(he always felt it was a punishment for working that day.), he also missed his only sons high school graduation because he had to work. When the idea of Unions came up he fought for them so him and his coworkers could have a 5 day work week and make a living wage, so they could have a chance at healthcare and a little more security in thier job. He died in 1964 at 79 years old so I guess that means that the generation before the babyboomers started all this entitlement stuff.

When you say they wanted to make more money without advanced education you are forgetting that back in my father and mothers day if you got a grammer school diploma you were doing fine and if you made it to a high school graduation you had an advanced education. That generation worked hard all thier life and if they made it to 65 and retirement they had been working for 45-50 years and yes I believe they were "entitled" to a little rest for thier last few years without having to worry about how to buy food. My mother is 80 years old and does not get enough from Social security to live on, i am a young baby boomer and I am stuck in the tween generation. I have children of college age I am helping to support and I have a mother and mother- in-law in thier 80's that might need my help.

My husband did stay with his company 30 years he was loyal to them My father stayed with the same company until his retirement, my Father-in-law was with his company more then 25 years. We were taught that if you worked hard and stayed current you could stay with a company and expect to be treated with respect. These days the CEO's of corporations are younger and they feel no loyalty to employees. They get rid of the "old" ones first It used to be they got rid of the new ones first and they respected senority. Whether people have been with a company 5 years or 35 years if they are layed off at 50+ years even if they are current and good at their job it doesn't matter. No one wants to hire the "old" guy or gal. We are to young to retire and we can't get a job.

So you tell me when the kids my son went to school with get new fancy cars every 2 years live home with Mommy and Daddy until they are 30 years old and are satisfied to collect unemployment for 6-30 months "because we can". Who is the entitled generation?

At least my generation worked many years BEFORE we thought we were entitled to anything.

[skyfall123]

When I went to mail some letters at the Post Office the other day, there was a very normal looking mother with a small child in a stroller who was holding a sign that said "Please help, I need to feed my family". I gave her twenty bucks. She started crying.

On my way home I drove by the hotel turned "residence of last resort" for families that have lost their homes. The one featured on 60 Minutes last year, because the school bus now stops at the hotel to pick kids up for school (because there are so many living there). There are 1700 homeless children in my school district, which is the highest rated and one of the wealthier school districts in Central Florida.

There are still 900,000 unemployed in Florida. I don't know what is going on in the rest of the nation, but I think it is safe to say, that there are a lot of people out there of all ages that are just trying to make it to next week.

Just saying....

[ryoder]

Yeah Geezer it is bad here in Florida. I do think some of those people are where they are because of bad life choices though. Maybe some of them are victims but in most cases there is a series of poor decisions made over time.

Its sort of like our 14 trillion dollar debt. We have made poor choices in the past 30 years and those choices have consequences.

I feel bad for the kids because the choices were their parents' and they are suffering for it.

[frankiebleyes]

By poor choices do you mean lose their jobs (despite many being educated) to global outsourcing. Of course, somehow they are supposed to have saved enough money to stay in their homes, and take care of their children. Hum wonder how many of them didn't have the good fortune to have parents who could take care of them so that they could also take care of their grandchildren. Obviously, becoming seriously ill despite healthcare insurance (still had over 200,000.00 in debt personally) never occurs to some people. I'm sick of this discussion, no jobs, no money and everyone is suffering in this country. We need jobs not retroric. Yes, I'd gladly pay more taxes to have those jobs, etc. back in this country putting our people back to work so that they could feed their families, etc. Entitlement, no, common sense yes.