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NYU professor fired... Organic chem class too hard! - bjcheung77 - 10-06-2022
Well, since he was thinking of retiring, he can now! I would have recommended retirement earlier since he's already 84 years old. Some like to continue working even after they've reached age of retirement, I wouldn't mind doing something along those lines until I'm 70, even up to 80 at most... Come to think of it, what would I do when I become a senior... I was thinking of "taking" courses towards a PhD then when the tuition is significantly cheaper and also coach/teach, travel, etc.
Link: New York University professor fired after students say his class was too hard (msn.com)
RE: NYU professor fired... Organic chem class too hard! - ss20ts - 10-07-2022
He was actually retired and came back to teach at NYU after they asked him to teach. This issue wasn't his age. The issue was students complaining that his class was too difficult and he wouldn't flex. I can't say I blame him. He taught organic chemistry. This is course required for med students. it's not an easy course to begin with. Why is being challenged such a bad thing? It seems like many people aren't interested in being challenged today. If it's not easy then forget it; they have no interest.
RE: NYU professor fired... Organic chem class too hard! - Johann - 10-07-2022
Dr. Jones has been doing what he does, as he does for decades and has established a formidable reputation as a professor. Many. many students passed his courses in the past and became successful professionals. Now conditions have changed - and I believe students have been changed by them. COVID has made it intensely difficult for all in the classroom, those who instruct and those who learn. It has been a virtual classroom for much of the last couple of years - and continues to be so, in some cases.
I do not fault Dr. Jones for not changing methods or standards. I don't know the best answer to the problem here. I think we have something on our hands that came suddenly and might take a decade - or two - to sort out. One of the real puzzlers is - what do we do, when students start staying away from lectures (online) in large numbers as they did here. There are aspects of this that lead me to believe people set themselves up for failure by not attending. Is this a widespread thing with other courses, schools and instructors these days? Are we seeing a second "Great Resignation" in the classroom?
It was noted that this is a weed-out course. I think the administration might not see it that way any more. That could be a dangerous decision. And if they decided irrevocably that Dr. Jones' yearly contract could not be renewed, I do not like this talk of "firing" an academic who has had a distinguished teaching career for over half a century. He is 84. Most people have retired many years before this age. The VERY least this professor deserves is an "honorable discharge."
If there's blame here - then blame radically changed conditions. As the saying goes in Nigeria, "Na condition wey make crayfish bend."
RE: NYU professor fired... Organic chem class too hard! - ss20ts - 10-07-2022
(10-07-2022, 09:38 AM)Johann Wrote: Dr. Jones has been doing what he does, as he does for decades and has established a formidable reputation as a professor. Many. many students passed his courses in the past and became successful professionals. Now conditions have changed - and I believe students have been changed by them. COVID has made it intensely difficult for all in the classroom, those who instruct and those who learn. It has been a virtual classroom for much of the last couple of years - and continues to be so, in some cases.
I do not fault Dr. Jones for not changing methods or standards. I don't know the best answer to the problem here. I think we have something on our hands that came suddenly and might take a decade - or two - to sort out. One of the real puzzlers is - what do we do, when students start staying away from lectures (online) in large numbers as they did here. There are aspects of this that lead me to believe people set themselves up for failure by not attending. Is this a widespread thing with other courses, schools and instructors these days? Are we seeing a second "Great Resignation" in the classroom?
It was noted that this is a weed-out course. I think the administration might not see it that way any more. That could be a dangerous decision. And if they decided irrevocably that Dr. Jones' yearly contract could not be renewed, I do not like this talk of "firing" an academic who has had a distinguished teaching career for over half a century. He is 84. Most people have retired many years before this age. The VERY least this professor deserves is an "honorable discharge."
If there's blame here - then blame radically changed conditions. As the saying goes in Nigeria, "Na condition wey make crayfish bend."
Yeah this man isn't just an average professor. He's an extremely accomplished man. He knows his stuff. He's written textbooks, researched more than most people even imagine, taught for decades, and is held in high regards. This is not a good look for NYU. I take classes that are far easier than organic chem and see numerous complaints about the work and the difficulty. I'm like are you joking? This is a cakewalk to a job!
RE: NYU professor fired... Organic chem class too hard! - LevelUP - 10-07-2022
New York University is a top 25 college, according to Usnews.com.
This story points out why some medical students may avoid this college if there are many courses with high DFW rates.
The trend is grade inflation for colleges. I would rather be ahead of the curve than behind the curve. Nobody will care if you had a crazy demanding professor, and despite all this, you still earned a B. That B grade will be considered ordinary, not extortionary.
I certainly do understand, from a student's perspective, the massive amount of pressure they are under. One bad course or grade, and they can kiss their undergrad or graduate dreams goodbye. One bad course and their life can become a living hell.
RE: NYU professor fired... Organic chem class too hard! - rachel83az - 10-07-2022
Per the article:
Quote:The statement said the decision was also based on complaints about dismissiveness, unresponsiveness, condescension and lack of transparency about grading.
It sounds like a lot of students were failing because of bad teaching methods, especially with the sudden shift to remote learning and the professor not being able to teach well. You can be very accomplished in a given field, but teach it very poorly.
RE: NYU professor fired... Organic chem class too hard! - ifomonay - 10-07-2022
(10-07-2022, 01:10 PM)rachel83az Wrote: Per the article:
Quote:The statement said the decision was also based on complaints about dismissiveness, unresponsiveness, condescension and lack of transparency about grading.
It sounds like a lot of students were failing because of bad teaching methods, especially with the sudden shift to remote learning and the professor not being able to teach well. You can be very accomplished in a given field, but teach it very poorly.
I agree 100%. Especially the "lack of transparency" about grading. Sounds like he didn't have objective metrics. Unfair grading isn't cool at all. Doing research and teaching are entirely difference skill sets. Doesn't sound like he was cut for newer teaching paradigms, or didn't think he needed to adapt.
Organic Chem is a weedout course for all good schools. But it should be based on the subject material, not because the professor was non-responsive.
RE: NYU professor fired... Organic chem class too hard! - Alpha - 10-07-2022
As with everything, there's more than one side to the story (and maybe even 3-4 sides)
https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2022/10/maitland-jones-princeton-intelligence-competence
RE: NYU professor fired... Organic chem class too hard! - ss20ts - 10-07-2022
(10-07-2022, 06:00 PM)Alpha Wrote: As with everything, there's more than one side to the story (and maybe even 3-4 sides)
https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2022/10/maitland-jones-princeton-intelligence-competence
Practice exams? I started college in 1993 and I have never seen a practice exam outside of Sophia in all these years and 270 undergrad credits and 42 grad credits.
RE: NYU professor fired... Organic chem class too hard! - Alpha - 10-11-2022
Here's a related article on "lowering the bar."
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biggest-scandal-higher-education-lowering-bar