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Dead EJD? Older article... - bjcheung77 - 05-01-2022
For those at the 'upper echelons', would you even want to go for an executive JD degree to get more familiar with the legal side of things?
Such as if a person would want to be part of the "executive" team that oversees the legal department...
Link: The Executive JD Costs More Than $33K For Three Years Of Law School — But It Doesn’t Make Its Students Into Lawyers (buzzfeednews.com)
Oh and here's a link for 9 ABA approved online JD programs for those who can afford them.
Link: 9 ABA-Approved Online Juris Doctor (J.D.) Degrees in 2022 (onlinemasteroflegalstudies.com)
RE: Dead EJD? Older article... - Alpha - 05-01-2022
(05-01-2022, 01:50 PM)bjcheung77 Wrote: For those at the 'upper echelons', would you even want to go for an executive JD degree to get more familiar with the legal side of things?
Such as if a person would want to be part of the "executive" team that oversees the legal department...
Link: The Executive JD Costs More Than $33K For Three Years Of Law School — But It Doesn’t Make Its Students Into Lawyers (buzzfeednews.com)
Oh and here's a link for 9 ABA approved online JD programs for those who can afford them.
Link: 9 ABA-Approved Online Juris Doctor (J.D.) Degrees in 2022 (onlinemasteroflegalstudies.com)
I can understand wanting a JD but not wanting to practice law. It's interesting and potentially useful in business. I wouldn't want to pay a lot of money for such a degree though. I think I'd prefer to go to a cheaper law school and then just not take the bar exam.
RE: Dead EJD? Older article... - freeloader - 05-02-2022
(05-01-2022, 09:13 PM)Alpha Wrote:Yeah, I agree with that. Why close doors for yourself unnecessarily? You may not want to practice before you go through law school, but what if your mind changes after you graduate? After you lose your current job?(05-01-2022, 01:50 PM)bjcheung77 Wrote: For those at the 'upper echelons', would you even want to go for an executive JD degree to get more familiar with the legal side of things?
Such as if a person would want to be part of the "executive" team that oversees the legal department...
Link: The Executive JD Costs More Than $33K For Three Years Of Law School — But It Doesn’t Make Its Students Into Lawyers (buzzfeednews.com)
Oh and here's a link for 9 ABA approved online JD programs for those who can afford them.
Link: 9 ABA-Approved Online Juris Doctor (J.D.) Degrees in 2022 (onlinemasteroflegalstudies.com)
I can understand wanting a JD but not wanting to practice law. It's interesting and potentially useful in business. I wouldn't want to pay a lot of money for such a degree though. I think I'd prefer to go to a cheaper law school and then just not take the bar exam.
RE: Dead EJD? Older article... - Courcelles - 05-02-2022
Other than it being technically a doctorate, what is the practical difference between this and the MLS? The MLS doesn’t come with the strange explanation of non-bar qualifying, and there are plenty out there now from perfectly good schools if 33k is in your price range for a degree that comes with more questions than it answers when listed on the CV.
RE: Dead EJD? Older article... - carrythenothing - 05-02-2022
(05-02-2022, 07:51 AM)Courcelles Wrote: Other than it being technically a doctorate, what is the practical difference between this and the MLS? The MLS doesn’t come with the strange explanation of non-bar qualifying, and there are plenty out there now from perfectly good schools if 33k is in your price range for a degree that comes with more questions than it answers when listed on the CV.
Basically, it's for the school's bottom line:
Quote:Yet there is one need the EJD seems to fulfill: Enrollment in JD programs has fallen over the last decade, according to data from the nonprofit Law School Transparency. The financial pressure from that decline, according to the group, “has been relieved at some law schools by growth of non-JD programs, whether post-JD programs, masters-level programs aimed at nonlawyers, or certificate programs.”
Unless you believe this argument:
Quote:Pritikin defended the value of the EJD, saying while a law degree that doesn’t allow you to practice law “isn’t going to be what many prospective students are looking for,” it does fill a niche for people who “have very specific goals and have a real understanding of how having that next level of training can really help them either at their existing organization, or in their industry, or if they want to shift positions within their industry.” He cited such examples as people who want to become mediators, patent agents, or health care administrators.
“There is a gap between a master's and a JD that very few others are filling,” he said. “And we said, there may not be a massive market for it, but for those for whom it's right, we're glad that we can offer that option for them.”
RE: Dead EJD? Older article... - freeloader - 05-02-2022
(05-02-2022, 07:51 AM)Courcelles Wrote: Other than it being technically a doctorate, what is the practical difference between this and the MLS? The MLS doesn’t come with the strange explanation of non-bar qualifying, and there are plenty out there now from perfectly good schools if 33k is in your price range for a degree that comes with more questions than it answers when listed on the CV.Based on the article and a little intuition, I would say people would chose the EJD degree for one of three reasons: ignorance, not realizing how limiting this degree is, that you cannot transfer the credits to a “conventional” JD program, trusting the Purdue brand without understanding/researching what “global” and “executive” mean, etc; vanity/aspiration, people wanting to have the JD/doctorate, even if a decidedly inferior version of the “normal” JD/doctorate; emotionally/psychologically vulnerable people who have been rejected by conventional JD programs and, in their altered mental state, view the EJD as a good alternative.
If this is really meant as a degree for mid-career people, then perhaps it could also make sense if your employer would treat this as a doctoral degree for pay and promotional purposes. Sanantone has referenced in this thread and elsewhere, federal government treatment of JD degrees. I would be curious if the federal government, for instance, would treat this as an earned doctoral degree, an earned JD, or similar; the Purdue Global one, at least, is from an RA school. If having this degree helped somebody move from a GS 12 to a GS13 position, that would mean a pay raise of ~$15,000/year. You could certainly justify this degree to achieve that. Likewise, how would a state government or school district treat this degree? Since there isn’t a research requirement, dissertation, doctoral capstone, or similar, I could see somebody thinking this degree would be easier than earning a PhD or EdD, though you would think it would have a lot less practical impact in the classroom.
FWIW, I understand this would not qualify people for an attorney job with a government, but there are a lot of non-attorney jobs that list a JD as qualifying education, both in the state where I live and for the federal government.
RE: Dead EJD? Older article... - carrythenothing - 05-02-2022
For federal administrative and management positions, even a "LL.B. or J.D., if related" only qualifies you for GS-9. You need a "Ph.D. or equivalent doctoral degree" or "LL.M., if related" (the post-JD degree) for GS-11. You can't qualify on education alone for GS-12 and above. (I guess if the EJD is considered "equivalent" to a master's degree, you could qualify for GS-9.)
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/classification-qualifications/general-schedule-qualification-standards/#url=Group-Standards
RE: Dead EJD? Older article... - sanantone - 05-02-2022
(05-02-2022, 08:50 AM)carrythenothing Wrote: For federal administrative and management positions, even a "LL.B. or J.D., if related" only qualifies you for GS-9. You need a "Ph.D. or equivalent doctoral degree" or "LL.M., if related" (the post-JD degree) for GS-11. You can't qualify on education alone for GS-12 and above. (I guess if the EJD is considered "equivalent" to a master's degree, you could qualify for GS-9.)
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/classification-qualifications/general-schedule-qualification-standards/#url=Group-Standards
There's one exception. If the position is designated as a research position, then a completed doctoral degree will qualify for GS-12, and a master's degree will qualify for GS-11. Those positions are hard to come by, though. Non-research GS-11 will accept three years of progressive education toward a doctoral degree, so you can qualify for that grade level before graduating.
The EJD is a waste of time and money, and it'll also be confusing to employers. The MLS or MSLS should suffice for those looking for more legal training without needing to become lawyers. There are also some LLM programs that will admit patent agents who don't have a JD.
RE: Dead EJD? Older article... - freeloader - 05-02-2022
Most attorneys are in the 905 series (Attorney), but there are legal jobs in the 901 (General Legal and Kindred Administration) series that technically don't require a law degree, but practically speaking require a law degree. There have been a number of federal agencies that have moved non-trial attorneys to this job classification. This has everything to do with limiting promotion and benefits for the people in these series. Direct entry positions range all the way from GS-5 to GS-13.
Per the job announcements, all you actually need is the requisite relevant experience. But...multiple agencies moved JDs/licensed attorneys into this series, and are filling new hires in this series (as opposed to 905 or other jobs in the 900's) with people who have experience AND a JD (though not necessarily a law license). As stated, this has happened in a number of agencies and has been grieved in all of the agencies. I have a friend who is telling me that at least one of the government workers' unions is going to file suit to stop this, and I imagine more will follow suit (ha! a funny).
Having applied for tons of federal jobs and gone through a bunch of interview, I am a little jaded. I also recognize that the OPM guidelines and even the job descriptions are quite often treated a recommendations and as minimums to qualify, but not minimums to actually get interview or hired...
RE: Dead EJD? Older article... - Alpha - 05-02-2022
(05-02-2022, 07:51 AM)Courcelles Wrote: Other than it being technically a doctorate, what is the practical difference between this and the MLS? The MLS doesn’t come with the strange explanation of non-bar qualifying, and there are plenty out there now from perfectly good schools if 33k is in your price range for a degree that comes with more questions than it answers when listed on the CV.
Are you asking the difference between a JD and an MLS? If so, the JD will typically qualify you to practice as an Attorney. The Masters in Legal Studies does not. It is typically a degree earned by someone in business who wants to become more familiar with the Law and legal practices.. You do not need a JD in order to be admitted to an MLS program.