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Tuition-Free College Movement Gains Momentum, Despite Biden’s Stalled Plan - LevelUP - 03-06-2022
Tuition-free college movement gains momentum, despite Biden’s stalled plan
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/03/05/tuition-free-college-states/
What do you all think about these tuition-free movements?
RE: Tuition-Free College Movement Gains Momentum, Despite Biden’s Stalled Plan - Vle045 - 03-06-2022
As a parent of a teen, I like the idea of free college. As a taxpayer, I wonder where the money comes from. Higher taxes? I feel all taxed out. Our local school district fails to pass levies all the time and they do need the funding. So programs get cut left and right. I don’t know enough about HOW it would be free to have an opinion really.
RE: Tuition-Free College Movement Gains Momentum, Despite Biden’s Stalled Plan - rachel83az - 03-06-2022
100-150 years ago (I don't feel like looking up the exact timeline), anything past 6th grade had to be paid for by the student (or the student's parents). Now, we have free junior high and free high school. Free college is the next natural progression of that.
RE: Tuition-Free College Movement Gains Momentum, Despite Biden’s Stalled Plan - posabsolute - 03-06-2022
I'm not from the USA, but for all the talks about cancelling student debt I see (Reddit and al), I don't see a lot of talk of the reforms it would require so the USA doesn't get in the same situation 10 years afterward. It feels to me a bit backwards, Shoudn't you reform the system first, then cancel the debt?
I come from a country with fairly low tuition for residents, totally think we need to make education affordable, but you know, the USA with its open market actually created fairly innovative, low-tuition programs, the USA ed-tech companies are booming, innovation is going fast and a lot of that is fueled at getting a part of the traditional university pie.
And so maybe the problem is that American student loans are predatory, too easy to get and so unclear what you're signing into, it's inflating the whole system prices because you accept to pay much more than you should.
RE: Tuition-Free College Movement Gains Momentum, Despite Biden’s Stalled Plan - bluebooger - 03-06-2022
"And so maybe the problem is that American student loans are predatory, too easy to get and so unclear what you're signing into, it's inflating the whole system prices because you accept to pay much more than you should. "
^ this -- 100 * times
you can't buy cigarettes or alcohol until you're 21, but you can take out a loan for $60k at age 19
19 year old people barely understand credit cards, the job market or Return On Investment when it comes to education and selecting a degree or school (oh, I've always wanted to experience life in NYC: the artists, the crowds, the freedom -- I just need to take out a $60 k loan so i can attend NYU and study psychology -- it will be wonderful)
DOH !
RE: Tuition-Free College Movement Gains Momentum, Despite Biden’s Stalled Plan - davewill - 03-06-2022
(03-06-2022, 11:14 AM)posabsolute Wrote: I'm not from the USA, but for all the talks about cancelling student debt I see (Reddit and al), I don't see a lot of talk of the reforms it would require so the USA doesn't get in the same situation 10 years afterward. It feels to me a bit backwards, Shoudn't you reform the system first, then cancel the debt?
I come from a country with fairly low tuition for residents, totally think we need to make education affordable, but you know, the USA with its open market actually created fairly innovative, low-tuition programs, the USA ed-tech companies are booming, innovation is going fast and a lot of that is fueled at getting a part of the traditional university pie.
And so maybe the problem is that American student loans are predatory, too easy to get and so unclear what you're signing into, it's inflating the whole system prices because you accept to pay much more than you should.
All of the above. The issue is that reform requires the legislature to execute and pass it, while forgiveness can be done under existing laws. In our current political climate, passing anything, much less something this controversial, is essentially impossible. The problem is that we NEED to do something because this debt problem is stifling our economy and ruining the lives of our young people.
The free tuition movement is is fine as far as it goes, but we need to not just shovel tax money out for tuition, we need to control the tuition costs. My personal opinion is that what we should do is to make community college essentially free (perhaps priced to fit within a Pell Grant) everywhere in the country. Some states already do this. Then we need to create a similarly priced system of 4 year public colleges. Forget about trying to be prestigious research institutions or having huge athletic facilities, just get down to the job of educating people. Include affordable trade programs under the same plan so that we aren't just pushing 4 year college on everyone. If we have enough seats for those who want them, this meets my definition of "free tuition". The poor really can have it for free, and everyone else can easily afford the tuition.
This mirrors how the system used to work (at least in California) where CC was (and still is) very affordable and the two state university systems were within the budget of much of the middle class (or even a part time working student).
I really have no stomach for continuing to inflate tuition prices by using tax dollars to pay for tuition without price controls.
RE: Tuition-Free College Movement Gains Momentum, Despite Biden’s Stalled Plan - dfrecore - 03-06-2022
(03-06-2022, 07:43 PM)davewill Wrote: The free tuition movement is is fine as far as it goes, but we need to not just shovel tax money out for tuition, we need to control the tuition costs. My personal opinion is that what we should do is to make community college essentially free (perhaps priced to fit within a Pell Grant) everywhere in the country. Some states already do this. Then we need to create a similarly priced system of 4 year public colleges. Forget about trying to be prestigious research institutions or having huge athletic facilities, just get down to the job of educating people. Include affordable trade programs under the same plan so that we aren't just pushing 4 year college on everyone. If we have enough seats for those who want them, this meets my definition of "free tuition". The poor really can have it for free, and everyone else can easily afford the tuition.
This mirrors how the system used to work (at least in California) where CC was (and still is) very affordable and the two state university systems were within the budget of much of the middle class (or even a part time working student).
I really have no stomach for continuing to inflate tuition prices by using tax dollars to pay for tuition without price controls.
Amen!
Also, can we just stop using the word "free" when discussing things like this?? Let's be grownups and use the truth - it's not "free" but "taxpayer-funded." Now, whether we want taxpayers to pay this or not is an entirely different thing, but at least call it what it is.
I'd also like to be very honest with kids about costs. In CA, 4yr public universities have been very affordable for a very long time. CC is free or inexpensive at $46/cr, and an AA/AS will run you less than $3000 over 2 years. Tuition at the CSU-system schools is roughly $7000/yr. So 2 years at the CC and then 2 years at the local 4yr runs you about $16,800 total. That is VERY affordable. Less than $5000/yr when you average that out. There are 113 CC's and 23 CSU's, so for the vast majority of people in the state, this is doable (living at home and paying your way through school).
But so many times, people want to go away for a "college experience" (I freaking HATE this term), which generally costs more than tuition. And THAT is where we go wrong here. We encourage kids to leave home and go away to school which makes just about any college unaffordable. We really should be encouraging people to get a "college education" instead of a "college experience." When we make it clear that an education that is close to home is affordable and people can work their way through and get out in 4 years debt-free, then we will be doing something right. Until then, we are courting disaster for these kids.
Obviously not every kid can live at home due to whatever circumstances are there. But I don't think this applies to most kids going away to school. We can help the ones with unstable living situations, and keep the rest out of debt by having them live at home for 4 years. Imagine if every kid did this - the billions that would be saved, the loans they wouldn't have to take.
The other thing that's frustrating - as a former CA taxpayer, we were already subsidizing college for people by keeping it affordable. So why on earth are we telling them to go out-of-state?!? Why aren't we telling them to stay here and go to school at somewhere their parents are already paying for with taxes?