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+--- Thread: BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration (/Thread-BA-in-CS-vs-BALS-w-CS-Concentration)
BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration - EWCTest - 05-12-2019
I'm looking at one of these two programs for a friend. I was wondering if there's any substantial difference between them in terms of jobs? They're not interested in doing grad school or anything, and have lots of CS skills in general, so the degree is mainly to solidify their resume. Is the additional effort for the BA in CS worth it?
RE: BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration - Merlin - 05-12-2019
(05-12-2019, 02:04 PM)EWCTest Wrote: I'm looking at one of these two programs for a friend. I was wondering if there's any substantial difference between them in terms of jobs? They're not interested in doing grad school or anything, and have lots of CS skills in general, so the degree is mainly to solidify their resume. Is the additional effort for the BA in CS worth it?
A BALS with a CS concentration will NOT be considered in the same category as a BACS if you're looking for jobs in software development. The degree itself is in liberal studies and the concentration only appears on a transcript. The only exception might be the HES ALB degree with the CS concentration, but that is kind of a unique situation.
For programming jobs, most employers will be looking for a CS degree specifically (whether it is BACS or BSCS doesn't matter too much) or at least a degree in software development.
Then again, depending on the employer a degree isn't always necessary if you can demonstrate programming skills in other ways like having mobile apps in an app store or verifiable open source contributions. Though even with provable skill, it can be hard to get an interview without a CS or SD degree opening the door.
If your friend is considering the TESU BACS, you should have them look at WGU's BSCS or BSSD degrees as well. I wouldn't suggest the BALS unless they're just looking for a checkbox degree to get a job in general.
RE: BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration - sanantone - 05-12-2019
Just to be clear, the concentration only being on the transcript is not the issue. Many schools list neither concentrations nor majors on the diploma. Out of all of the jobs that I've applied to (probably over a thousand), I've only had one employer ask for my diploma. I have had many ask for my transcripts.
The issue is that a concentration is usually not the equivalent of a major. COSC and HES are different. COSC used to not offer majors other than general studies, so they offered concentrations that were 30+ credits and had full curriculum requirements. Since Harvard Extension School wants to make it clear that HES students aren't like other students at Harvard, they give everyone a major in Extension Studies with a concentration. TESU has a BA in CS and a BA in LS that offers a concentration in CS. The BA in CS is mostly like your typical computer science degree. The BS with a concentration only requires 18 credits in the concentration, it does not require computer science co-requisites (physics, calculus II and III, etc.), and the rest of the area of study can consist of any other liberal arts subject. A major is normally more than 30 credit hours.
RE: BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration - davewill - 05-12-2019
Completely agree that you want a real CS degree for a software career. With 27 free elective units, TESU's BACS is pretty transfer friendly, and with the courses available now, it's also pretty test out friendly.
RE: BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration - CarpeDiem8 - 06-24-2019
(05-12-2019, 06:02 PM)davewill Wrote: Completely agree that you want a real CS degree for a software career. With 27 free elective units, TESU's BACS is pretty transfer friendly, and with the courses available now, it's also pretty test out friendly.
I have no interest in becoming a software engineer, but some of the work I do in tech support does have coding involved and as such, positions are opening up as "support engineers" - basically a step up from tech support (not IT tech, but web based technologies). A Computer Science degree is overkill and actually may hurt my chances of getting these positions since the primary focus is still customer support, with a primary need for a strong background in communicating effectively and successfully.
Which would sound better to you?
BA in Liberal Studies with a concentration in Computer Science
or
BA in Communications (current path)
In either case, I would also have an external certificate in basic web development, along with a github account, etc. to demonstrate an understanding of web development.
Thanks!
D
RE: BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration - sanantone - 06-24-2019
I doubt a communications or liberal studies degree will be more marketable in this area. IT and IS programs are intended for tech jobs that don't require computer science knowledge. TESU does have a BS in Business Administration with a concentration in Computer Information Systems as well as a BS in IT.
RE: BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration - CarpeDiem8 - 06-24-2019
(06-24-2019, 11:17 AM)sanantone Wrote: I doubt a communications or liberal studies degree will be more marketable in this area. IT and IS programs are intended for tech jobs that don't require computer science knowledge. TESU does have a BS in Business Administration with a concentration in Computer Information Systems as well as a BS in IT.
Thanks, sanantone!
In all honesty, none of the support engineer jobs require a degree, but I want to have one regardless and figured I'd keep it in mind with my career.
Both CIS and IT appear to be fields that are not totally in line with web development/web based technologies, CIS a little more than IT, but I have little desire to manage business or people, so a BSBA is not my end goal at all.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I always enjoy and take note of your insight!!!!
RE: BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration - sanantone - 06-24-2019
(06-24-2019, 11:27 AM)CarpeDiem8 Wrote:The BSBA has some of what you would get in a communications program plus the IT stuff. There are IT programs with a focus on web development, but your area of focus can easily be formed in the area of study electives. I used six credits from a web development program I was in towards my BSBA in CIS. If I had decided to, I could have taken more courses/tests related to web technologies. Computer information systems is all about applying computer technologies to business needs.(06-24-2019, 11:17 AM)sanantone Wrote: I doubt a communications or liberal studies degree will be more marketable in this area. IT and IS programs are intended for tech jobs that don't require computer science knowledge. TESU does have a BS in Business Administration with a concentration in Computer Information Systems as well as a BS in IT.
Thanks, sanantone!
In all honesty, none of the support engineer jobs require a degree, but I want to have one regardless and figured I'd keep it in mind with my career.
Both CIS and IT appear to be fields that are not totally in line with web development/web based technologies, CIS a little more than IT, but I have little desire to manage business or people, so a BSBA is not my end goal at all.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I always enjoy and take note of your insight!!!!
RE: BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration - allvia - 06-24-2019
(06-24-2019, 11:09 AM)CarpeDiem8 Wrote: I have no interest in becoming a software engineer, but some of the work I do in tech support does have coding involved and as such, positions are opening up as "support engineers" - basically a step up from tech support (not IT tech, but web based technologies). A Computer Science degree is overkill and actually may hurt my chances of getting these positions since the primary focus is still customer support, with a primary need for a strong background in communicating effectively and successfully.
Which would sound better to you?
BA in Liberal Studies with a concentration in Computer Science
or
BA in Communications (current path)
In either case, I would also have an external certificate in basic web development, along with a github account, etc. to demonstrate an understanding of web development.
Thanks!
D
Why not stick with the BA in Communications, and add on the ASNSM in Computer Science (a relativity simple add on - often able to be done at very little, or even no extra cost, on top of the the TESU BA)
RE: BA in CS vs. BALS w/ CS Concentration - armstrongsubero - 06-24-2019
Get the computer science degree, it is the Gold Standard tech degree. IT, IS, ICT, CIS and BSBA in CIS are just wasting time.
If you need the "IT" knowledge, then you can always get certs Net+, CISCO, CEH, CISSP, CISM etc. You may regret not doing the CS degree if you do anything less.
If you are interested in software development (web etc) then no degree is necessary, but CS will give you more of the knowledge you need and is more respected by the software dev industry than IT, and for good reason. Calculus, discrete math, computer architecture and data structures really get you into the "CS minset" which is required for some jobs where you are doing full stack work or backend development.
The internet of things is also hot right now and that CS bacground will give you an edge, you can even go as far as developing deeply embedded software on far edge nodes etc. Something that I've seen people without EE or CS knowledge struggle with and they are stuck from moving past trivial examples.
With the rise in AI, I would say most of the "code monkey" jobs are going to be phased out. The industry will need extra talented engineers and scientists and not so much someone who simply knows how to copy and paste code, as AI will handle that. The industry needs more problem solvers, not guys to browse stack overflow and throw up websites. In that regard you'll be safer with the CS. Though doing a masters will set you apart from the crowd and lets you specialize.
A lot of old devs will say this isn't true or whatever, but look at networking jobs, a lot of companies simply don't need the "cable and crimper" Network+ or CCNA guys who got into the job after high school. With cloud computing and the killer Software Defined Networking (SDN) you need less devs with more skills.
The "everyone can code" movement in the software world will see a similar shift to the "anyone can do networking" which is occurring right now and you'll get a collapse.
In all the choice has to be getting a CS degree and an MBA and move into management or getting that CS degree up to the MPhil or PhD level an being an expert in a technology niche. Anything else will only yield short term rewards.
I may be wrong, but even a developing country like mine is seeing the shift toward SDN and cloud computing, and a lot of the "cable and crimper" guys are being phased out with CS grads taking their jobs.
Also a lot of support jobs WILL be phased out by AI, it's not a matter of IF, its a matter of WHEN so unless you are like 45+ look into being more skilled than just support.
Coding is evolving, there are a lot of tools that auto-genetate code and coding today is simply finding the right code to solving your problems. When someone codes in java with an ide like intellij, it's like the code rights itself. What this means is that coding isn't "special" anymore and salaries will drop lower and lower, until coding is at the point where some basic logic constructs will be all that is needed and it is like writing, required by everyone who is employed in a corporate capacity.
There will however be a need for computer scientists and experts to design AI's and tools, to push the cutting edge. We'll need more programmers and problem solvers, not more "coders".
Of course guys who come up with new ideas, entrepreneurs and business leaders will benefit most from this change, so I think it's safer to be on this end for the long term.
So for short term goals (< 5 years) aim at the "coder" hype jobs that give you a good salary, but in the long term (> 5 years) aim at becoming a super expert in one CS niche (AI, IoT, Quantum Computing, VR, Gaming), or move into the business side of things.
I decided on the business side of things a few months ago, and I must say, it's an easier run, I feel less pressure to keep up with all the buzz words and hype and my life feels more relaxed. It also gives you the freedom to learn the technology you want to learn rather than what you must learn.