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+--- Thread: CEOs without degrees (/Thread-CEOs-without-degrees)
CEOs without degrees - davewill - 02-26-2018
https://hbr.org/2018/02/how-ceos-without-college-degrees-got-to-the-top
Interesting info about getting to the top without a degree. Essentially, you work your butt off.
RE: CEOs without degrees - dfrecore - 02-26-2018
I'd say that for sure, and some talent. It sounds like these people have that "it" factor in business. Sounds a lot like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.
RE: CEOs without degrees - burbuja0512 - 02-27-2018
I think it's a combination of an exceptionally bright personality that is driven, but also happens to stumble into the right circumstances that allow the person's skills to shine brightly.
Not to downplay the importance of working your butt off, I just think a LOT of people degree or no degree work their butt off and most of them don't end up as CEO's.
RE: CEOs without degrees - videogamesrock - 02-27-2018
I took a sociology course 16 years ago and we analyzed data of the value of college degrees. I was shocked to find out that how many entrepreneurs do not have college degrees and how much money they make. Many also come from lower income backgrounds.
RE: CEOs without degrees - burbuja0512 - 02-27-2018
(02-27-2018, 04:14 PM)videogamesrock Wrote: I took a sociology course 16 years ago and we analyzed data of the value of college degrees. I was shocked to find out that how many entrepreneurs do not have college degrees and how much money they make. Many also come from lower income backgrounds.
Intersting stuff, but I wonder how much will change with this generation. I was making very decent sales money when I realized that I needed to get a college degree. I already HAD a very solid career, but I had been given chances by people who saw my potential... back when a degree was recommended, not required.
However, now, all the job postings out there in the business field seem to make a degree mandatory. (See my STEM posting lol)
Not to say that a degree is the be-all-end-all. We know that's not true. Just saying that unless you're a bright person at the right place/right time, or an amazing entrepreneur, it seems like the door would be closed before you could even get in.
I mean I know how often I have to apply when I want a job and I have very specialized skills in a niche where there isn't a lot of competition. I can't even imagine how younger people are doing it. So it just seems like today isn't even like it was 10 years ago when there wasn't recruiting software to block your application from ever being seen...
Edit to add: Entrepreneurs are the exception for my thoughts on a degree. I really think that someone who has a passion for a product or business won't need a college degree to succeed. (But a business background would sure help to market the product and manage the business!)
RE: CEOs without degrees - videogamesrock - 02-27-2018
I agree regarding the recruiting software - it makes credentials necessary to get into the door. I listened to a podcast just recently where a professor discussed the value of a college degree and he said that college actually doesn't teach you (for the most part) any job skills. He went on to say that the degree simply tells employers that you are smart and that is all it does.
RE: CEOs without degrees - Merlin - 02-27-2018
While I'm not one of these superstar CEO's, I've been quite successful in my own career without a degree. In fact, a degree was never even something that came up in conversation. But, a lot of my personal success was based on a combination of extensive self-education, being in the right place at the right time, and working my butt off. I don't see any particular reason that someone today couldn't do the same thing... there are always great opportunities for a person to make a name for themselves if they look around hard enough.
FYI, as for the job listings requiring STEM degrees -- I don't know anything about international sales, but in the tech industry, many job listings are boilerplate. Just because the job description requires skills A, B, C and says it expects a BS/MS in CS doesn't mean every candidate actually needs skills A, B, and C plus a CS degree. If you have skills B, C, and D and no degree, but have two apps in the Google play store and experience as an entrepreneur, chances are good that if you can get the resume into the hands of the hiring manager, your resume should at least be given serious consideration. In fact, many of my best software engineer employees were self-taught and could code circles around the new grads with masters degrees in CS. The problem these days is Applicant Tracking Systems -- they often screen out suitable candidates with resumes that don't scan well, or don't include specific keywords, or otherwise fail to meet whatever narrow criteria that may be set in the job entry. When I speak to people about job hunting, one of the most important things I drill into them is to figure out a way to get their resume into the hands of a hiring manager, either directly or indirectly through someone else at the company. If you just apply via an ATS there is a big chance your resume will never be seen, regardless of how amazing you may be.
Of course, the software & tech industry is a bit weird, at least here in the Silicon Valley / San Francisco area, as there are still a lot of people who don't have traditional college degrees (or didn't finish college for one reason or another.) So things may work differently elsewhere. Though I also worked for 15 years in the Washington DC metro, and it was the same there for the most part.
My interest in getting a degree is more for personal edification, combined with adding some credentials (such as an MBA) to back up my experience that may be helpful when speaking with people outside my field.
RE: CEOs without degrees - dfrecore - 02-27-2018
(02-27-2018, 04:14 PM)videogamesrock Wrote: I took a sociology course 16 years ago and we analyzed data of the value of college degrees. I was shocked to find out that how many entrepreneurs do not have college degrees and how much money they make. Many also come from lower income backgrounds.
Many people, especially from lower incomes, tend to become entrepreneurs because it's a way around the degree thing. Many don't want to waste 4 years in college when they could be out there earning an income. For a lot of people, even if you could manage to get college paid for, you're not earning the kind of money you could if you just worked full time (or more).
I quit college at 19 and started working full time, and was making WAY more than my friends who went to college, for a very long time. It took years for them to catch up to my head-start, and some never did bypass me.
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Becoming an entrepreneur is also a good way to get around any personal limitations you might have - like having spent time in jail, so it's hard to get hired anywhere.
RE: CEOs without degrees - Ideas - 02-28-2018
(02-27-2018, 04:45 PM)videogamesrock Wrote: I listened to a podcast just recently where a professor discussed the value of a college degree and he said that college actually doesn't teach you (for the most part) any job skills. He went on to say that the degree simply tells employers that you are smart and that is all it does.
I hate that this is true. I think education is too much of a business, since it doesn't teach enough applicable skills.
Like Merlin said, I think some of the tech companies are realizing that it's better to have someone who has actually done practical skills, even if they had, for example 1 year of practical application compared to someone with "4 years" of theory and stuff.
I don't think it just tells employers you are smart though. I think it tells them you can work (homework) on that subject/field for years and still be interested in that subject, and that you selected it above all the other fields. That you had probably at least 3 different teachers in the field and multiple sub-topics in the field and did fine with all of them. And most importantly that you can complete a fairly large goal (multi-year for most people).
(02-27-2018, 07:07 PM)Merlin Wrote: If you have skills B, C, and D and no degree, but have two apps in the Google play store and experience as an entrepreneur, chances are good that if you can get the resume into the hands of the hiring manager, your resume should at least be given serious consideration. In fact, many of my best software engineer employees were self-taught and could code circles around the new grads with masters degrees in CS. The problem these days is Applicant Tracking Systems -- they often screen out suitable candidates with resumes that don't scan well, or don't include specific keywords, or otherwise fail to meet whatever narrow criteria that may be set in the job entry. When I speak to people about job hunting, one of the most important things I drill into them is to figure out a way to get their resume into the hands of a hiring manager, either directly or indirectly through someone else at the company. If you just apply via an ATS there is a big chance your resume will never be seen, regardless of how amazing you may be.
This is pretty upsetting, but they get so many applicants that you can't blame them. Apparently they get some automated / semi-automated applications, especially in the tech field
I feel that some great applicants are being bypassed, but a lot of the applicants who are less-assertive are less desired in the corp environments... at least it seems this way to me.
RE: CEOs without degrees - burbuja0512 - 02-28-2018
Since I've worked in sales for so many years, I always wondered why qualified applicants didn't do more to find me. After all, your job in many sales positions is to find the decision-maker.
Once, when I didn't have an active position open, I had a sales person looking for a job somehow find me and I was very impressed. He got through to my office phone and was extremely polite, just inquiring whether I'd be hiring soon because he was interested in working at my company. I was so so sad that I didn't have anything. I even told him about a few positions in other divisions and offered to introduce him.
I think today's candidate has to get creative like that... but it's hard to do so without coming off as pushy or weird. (Like the people that make the really crazy resumes - looks super cool, but what does a traditional hiring manager think?) As mentioned above, it's all about a bright person being at the right place and time.