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Here come the tech students! - davewill - 11-29-2017
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/28/colorado-colleges-overflowing-computer-science-students/
This is cool, but I remember the last time it was like this. We got a bunch of people only in CS for the money who were not really engineer material. However, the article mentions this follows an uptick in STEM education in high schools, so hopefully this will turn out better.
RE: Here come the tech students! - bjcheung77 - 11-29-2017
It's a good thing, more students are now interested in "STEM". I've seen high schools and colleges informing/recruiting students into their programs. Further to that, they've also started gearing them for both genders, previously, mainly the "guys" would take these courses and now more and more ladies take them as well... The reverse is true for Nursing, I've seen more guys get into that profession than ever before... but trades, for example, is still dominated by the men, except culinary arts and hairdressing.
RE: Here come the tech students! - mudball - 11-30-2017
Very interesting article. Now I can see why it has been so hard for my son to get an internship in CS. They must also be flooded with applications. Not to mention they are specifically recruiting for female and minority interns in STEM fields, which puts him at an even greater disadvantage. Hopefully, his hard work will pay off.
RE: Here come the tech students! - sanantone - 11-30-2017
Despite stated recruiting goals, not many women or minorities (specifically black and Hispanic) are hired in tech. With minorities, the issue is that they usually lack exposure to interview practices used by the tech industry and don't know anyone who can give them pointers.
I applied for IT internships several years ago while I was in a computer science program. I'm a black woman and never received an interview. Being a black woman has never worked to my advantage, and my ethnic name has actually been a disadvantage.
RE: Here come the tech students! - mudball - 11-30-2017
I appreciate your input. It is a good thing to encourage diversity in all fields. I was only stating what we have experienced. Some of the jobs he couldn't even apply for because he had to be affiliated with specific a women's or minority organization. And I am not complaining either, nor would I ever accept him complaining. He doesn't. I teach him if he wants something, he has to work hard for it, and that's what we are trying to do.
RE: Here come the tech students! - dfrecore - 12-01-2017
I think it's weird to recruit for anyone except the best person for the job. I don't care if they are a man, woman, what color their skin is, or what their ethnic background is. Makes no difference. It's a strange way to go about hiring someone.
I also think it's weird to try to push women into the STEM majors. If women wanted to get into them, they would. My daughter does not feel like she can't do things because she's a female - quite the opposite. I rarely hear girls these days say "Oh, I'd really like to be a XXX but I can't because I'm a girl." Seriously. Now, I've heard plenty of girls say they weren't interested in certain fields. Only 1 of my daughter's friends wants to be an engineer (her dad is one). None of them wants to have anything to do with computers or the tech world. But a LOT of them are interested in science (doctor, nurse, NP, PT, psychiatrist have all been mentioned by them at one time or another). So clearly they have given this some thought and decided against the TEM portion of STEM for a reason, and I don't think it's because they don't think they can or are discouraged from pursuing those fields.
Sorry, rant over.
Ok, edit to add: My daughter thinks that anything where she sits behind a computer all day would be the worst possible job on the planet. I'm sure she's not the only one who thinks this way. None of the girls I talk to want to sit behind a computer for a job. All the jobs they list are things that are fairly active, walking around, talking to people, interacting. The exact opposite of what they see whey they watch TV and look at computer programmers. Just what I've heard being around a bunch of high school kids day in and day out for the last couple of years.
RE: Here come the tech students! - mudball - 12-01-2017
Even though it's less overt, some families, cultures, and society in whole still steer different people in "traditional directions". I think its a way of giving people the opportunity and incentive to try things they didn't think they would like. The intent is good. Whether it's the right way to go about it, I don't know.
RE: Here come the tech students! - sanantone - 12-01-2017
(12-01-2017, 02:20 AM)dfrecore Wrote: I think it's weird to recruit for anyone except the best person for the job. I don't care if they are a man, woman, what color their skin is, or what their ethnic background is. Makes no difference. It's a strange way to go about hiring someone.
I also think it's weird to try to push women into the STEM majors. If women wanted to get into them, they would. My daughter does not feel like she can't do things because she's a female - quite the opposite. I rarely hear girls these days say "Oh, I'd really like to be a XXX but I can't because I'm a girl." Seriously. Now, I've heard plenty of girls say they weren't interested in certain fields. Only 1 of my daughter's friends wants to be an engineer (her dad is one). None of them wants to have anything to do with computers or the tech world. But a LOT of them are interested in science (doctor, nurse, NP, PT, psychiatrist have all been mentioned by them at one time or another). So clearly they have given this some thought and decided against the TEM portion of STEM for a reason, and I don't think it's because they don't think they can or are discouraged from pursuing those fields.
Sorry, rant over.
Ok, edit to add: My daughter thinks that anything where she sits behind a computer all day would be the worst possible job on the planet. I'm sure she's not the only one who thinks this way. None of the girls I talk to want to sit behind a computer for a job. All the jobs they list are things that are fairly active, walking around, talking to people, interacting. The exact opposite of what they see whey they watch TV and look at computer programmers. Just what I've heard being around a bunch of high school kids day in and day out for the last couple of years.
I think women might have a natural inclination toward certain fields, but tech can be pretty hostile toward women from what I heard. I remember being in a tech class in high school and this boy telling me that I was wasting my time at one of the modules because I wouldn't know how to use the equipment. Even in music production, which is highly electronic now, men talk about there being less female producers because they're not capable of learning the software.
What's even weirder than having recruiting targets is discrimination. It's weird that companies will discriminate against minorities and women before they can even get in the door for an interview, which is the opposite of looking for the best person for the job. Targeted recruiting is really just a counterbalance for the discrimination.
There are fields that are women-dominated actively recruiting men: education and nursing.
RE: Here come the tech students! - Bibby - 12-01-2017
There's a common misconception that the jobs market has an insatiable demand for people who are good at computers, and that anyone who gets a degree in anything IT-related will be swimming in job offers from big tech companies and will be making six figures as soon as they graduate.
It's true that a degree in Computer Science opens more doors than a degree in Art History or Gender Studies would. However, unemployment rates for American CS graduates are much higher than you might expect. I've known a lot of smart and talented people who could do amazing things with computers but have experienced great difficulty finding a job where they could use their skills. This problem isn't limited to people from a particular school, area of study, or geographic region - the IT industry makes it very difficult to get your foot in the door, especially if you're not well-connected. Most IT jobs emphasize experience above everything else - degrees and GPA mean very little, and it's getting harder and harder to use education and certifications as a substitute for the steep experience requirements that almost all IT jobs have. And while some people with advanced tech skills do indeed make big bucks, you probably won't earn a huge salary as soon as you graduate, and many people leave the profession before they gain enough experience to earn mid-career salaries ("median" salaries don't reflect what an entry-level position will actually pay).
As a society, we should not be pushing uninterested students into IT-related degree programs. The United Kingdom has a higher rate of students studying CS than the United States does, yet British CS graduates have some of the highest unemployment rates of any degree program.
As for diversity (or lack thereof) in IT, IT is like all professions in that it tends to attract a certain kind of person with a certain kind of background and interests. The majority of these people are male and are either white, Indian, or East Asian. People who choose IT aren't always the most well-adjusted socially, and they're not always welcoming of people who don't fit this mold. Media tends to exaggerate these negative stereotypes by portraying people with computer skills as being unattractive and unfashionable, traits that the majority of adolescents don't want to emulate.
I'm not a fan of the "everybody needs to major in STEM" movement pushed by many in government. However, having basic digital literacy skills is more important than ever before. The vast majority of jobs will involve using computers in some shape or form, and judging from the students I've taught at the college level, a lot of them struggle with intermediate computing skills - things like managing files and folders, understanding common file formats, and using basic Excel functions. These are things that anyone in any job needs to be able to do, and they're basically prerequisites for success for anyone considering an IT degree. A lot of older people assume that just because these kids grew up with computers that they know how to use them. However, being good at liking other people's Instagram posts is not the same as having the skills needed in business.
To make a long story short, if you like computers and programming things, consider an IT-related major. Make sure that kids are exposed to programming and IT so they can decide whether they like it. If they don't like the idea of debugging code all day, don't push them into pursuing a field they don't like, but do make sure that they understand the basics of computing.
RE: Here come the tech students! - mudball - 12-01-2017
Bibby, thank you for your post. So what would you consider the most/least in-demand jobs in CS? What are the CS jobs that I keep hearing that they can't find qualified people to fill? And what do you believe is the demand for a software developer?
My son has attended 2 summer ID TECH camps and when I inquired about what he should learn to become one of their teachers, I was surprised that he said there are too many people with Java experience. They said if he wants a teaching job with them he should learn Robotics, Maya or Unity and he would have a much better opportunity. I was a little surprised. He does love Unity, but I can't see many jobs with that other than teaching it at camp? Am I wrong?