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+--- Thread: My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU (/Thread-My-Experience-Excelsior-vs-TESU)
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My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU - Leherself - 01-20-2016
So first, why'd I switch?
So I was one class away from finishing my BA in Liberal Studies from Excelsior when I realized that degree wasn't going to work for me, for a couple of different reasons. One of the more significant ones was that I was missing about 15 credits worth of specific pre-requisites for my desired graduate school choice. I also figured out that I wanted to have an actual declared major after all, and my advisor wasn't willing to work with me. I have too many credits / am too close to finishing for him to change my degree program. The major(s) that I was interested in would all require several online courses if I did them at Excelsior, and I've figured out that the 8 week online course format doesn't work very well for me (my work schedule is sporadic and it can be difficult/impossible to keep up with courses that have multiple assignment deadlines every week. I can handle the workload - I just need more flexibility scheduling it).
So I've switched from Excelsior to TESU. I'm currently listed as a Social Sciences major, but I intend to do a dual area of study in Social Sciences and Humanities (I want to teach high school social studies. There's a madness to my method
And Social Sciences is a major that also makes sense in my current career field in military intelligence & security, so that works out also). Right now, I've completed all the major requirements for Social Sciences, and I intend to fill out the few remaining Humanities major requirements with my 24 resident credits at TESU. Right now I'm planning mostly TECEPs, and a couple guided study courses. I'm also playing around with Straighterline, but that's just because I'm a professional nerd.... And... I'll admit it. I also think Excelsior is a stupid name for a college, and would much rather have a degree that says "Thomas Edison State University" on it. Excelsior always sounded like a charter high school kind of name to me.
Speed of academic evaluation.
Interestingly, TESU was faster. They finished my eval five days after they received my last transcript. They have a very strange asynchronous communication system though - I've received three different notifications of my acceptance to the degree program (e-mail, snail mail, another e-mail), all on different days, and yet half of my student pages still call me an applicant. Whatever.
Upper level vs. lower level.
I honestly think TESU is ahead here. They upgraded more of my lower division courses than they downgraded upper division ones. The challenge with TESC is you never really know what's going to count as upper division until they evaluate it - for common exams, that's already been done, but my coursework from other schools was all over the place.
Excelsior tends to follow whatever the originator specified. If ACE says it's upper division, it is. If ACE says it's lower, it's lower. Excelsior's degree plans require significantly more upper division credit than TESU's do also, which can make it harder to put a degree plan together, and limits you on your source options. So, for instance, UExcel Social Psychology is an upper level exam, but if you transferred in Social Psychology from Study.com it would be considered a lower level class because that's what the ACE evaluation says, even if the same material is covered in both.
How my UExcel courses & exams transferred to TESC.
- Psychology of Adulthood & Aging - PSY-319 Aging
- Abnormal Psychology - PSY-350 Abnormal Psychology
- Social Psychology - PSY-370 Social Psychology I
- Juvenile Delinquency - SOC-242 Juvenile Delinquency (this is an upper level exam at Excelsior, so somewhat disappointing, but they upgraded one of my Anthropology classes so we're even)
- World Population - SOC-318 World Populations
- Cultural Diversity - SOC-322 Cultural Diversity in the US
- Information Literacy - LIS-101 Intro to Library Resources
- College Writing - ENC-101 English Composition I
My gen ed requirements
Both schools are finicky in different ways. Excelsior has their depth requirements, and requires more upper division credit. TESU has more specific general education requirements, and it's hard to know sometimes exactly what will work for what. TESU's requirements are easier to complete using alternative credit sources - a lot of Excelsior's requirements are more school specific, like their refusal to accept CLEP for College Composition.
Right now, this is what I've got filling in my TESU GERs:
- Written English - Excelsior credits (My CLEP College Composition exam wasn't accepted at Excelsior, so I have duplicate credits. TESU used the ones with grades)
- Oral Communication - COM-108 (This was a tranferred B&M class for me, but this is also what Straighterline Intro to Communication transcribes as)
- Quantitative Literacy - MAT-102 (College Mathematics CLEP)
- Information Literacy - LIT-292 (Analyzing & Interpreting Literature CLEP)
- Diversity - SOC-101 Intro to Sociology (transfer credit from B&M)
- Ethics (to be added - will have several options. I still haven't sent them my ACE transcript. I'll let you know what they do with the free 2 credit ethics class when I do)
- Civic Engagement (will be Straighterline American Government)
- Knowledge of Human Cultures - CLEP U.S. History I & II, Western Civ I & II
- Understanding the Physical & Natural World - CIS-107 Computer Concepts & Applications (B&M Transfer, but available as a TECEP), COS-101 Intro to Computers (DSST)
Excess credit on evals / transcripts.
I always had a really hard time getting a straight answer about this from Excelsior. It seemed that if it wasn't part of my degree plan, then they didn't even want to acknowledge it, and it never turned up on my evals. I never did get them to give me a definitive answer about whether they'd list all of my accumulated undergraduate credit on my final transcript or not.
I have quite a lot of extra credit hours, and I need some of them for purposes other than my degree (meeting pre-requisites for work stuff, pre-requisites for grad school, etc.). I quite like that my entire academic history is displayed on my TESU evaluation and transcript.
Military discount & Residency Requirement.
This is almost the same between both schools. Both schools give a military enrollment option tuition discount - reduces tuition for regular courses to $250 a credit hour. Excelsior requires 18 credits in residence for a bachelor's degree using the army enrollment option, which can be fulfilled using UExcel exams (except information literacy and the capstone). TESU requires 24 credits in residency for their military degree completion program, and whether that can all be fulfilled with TECEP exams depends on your degree plan.
Now that Excelsior has stiff pearson view testing center fees on all their exams, TECEPs are a bit cheaper (and more flexible, since you can take them at home). UExcel has substantially more upper division liberal arts classes available though. For business courses, TECEP seems to have a slight edge.
Website navigation
Excelsior seems to have an advantage here - their set-up is a lot more intuitive. TESU has more information available on their website though. Pretty much no matter what your question, if you dig around on TESU.edu long enough, you'll find it. With Excelsior, sometimes the only way you'll get an answer is if you ask someone directly... and sometimes even that doesn't work.
GI Bill
Excelsior has a nifty little system where you can take a full time course load of UExcel exams, and they certify you as a full time student and you get paid by the GI Bill as if you were taking regular classes. If you also take a local college course at the same time, then the GI Bill will pay you the same as if you were taking a full course load locally. It's an amazing way of doing things, and I quite enjoyed it while it lasted for me.
I have no idea if TECEPs work the same way (I have a suspicion that they don't, though). I'm pretty much planning to do TESU completely out of pocket, so I can save my remaining GI Bill entitlement for grad school (I've got about 20 months left, and I think I'm going to need all of them). Since I'm enrolled in the military degree completion program (a discounted version of the per credit tuition plan), I think I'll be able to afford it.
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Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. Really, in the overall, the two schools aren't that different. I think Excelsior is better if you really want to game the GI Bill (which I did, for a while). TESU has more majors that are easy to test out of (currently this is more important to me). Which is better overall is situation dependent.
UExcel exams are easy, also, especially the ones that have practice exams available. I'm a little bit nervous about TECEPs, but since so many of them are aligned with free Saylor courses for study material, I have a feeling they won't be a big problem.
My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU - NAP - 01-20-2016
Thanks for sharing your experience with both schools!
At Excelsior, I was able to have my extra credits included on my transcript "below the degree line". My academic advisor gave me the instructions on how to make the request. If I remember correctly, I needed to fax my request to a specific office.
My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU - bluebooger - 01-20-2016
Leherself Wrote:- Understanding the Physical & Natural World - CIS-107 Computer Concepts & Applications (B&M Transfer, but available as a TECEP), COS-101 Intro to Computers (DSST)
I've seen that posted from others, but I've never been able to figure out how learning about CPUs, RAM and MS Word fulfills that requirement
DSST physical science ? yes
CLEP biology ? yes
ECE Weather and Climate ? yes
ECE Earth Science ? yes
DSST Intro to Computing ? really ?
http://getcollegecredit.com/assets/pdf/dsst_fact_sheets/DSST_IntroductiontoComputing.pdf
My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU - Leherself - 01-20-2016
bluebooger Wrote:I've seen that posted from others, but I've never been able to figure out how learning about CPUs, RAM and MS Word fulfills that requirement
DSST physical science ? yes
CLEP biology ? yes
ECE Weather and Climate ? yes
ECE Earth Science ? yes
DSST Intro to Computing ? really ?
http://getcollegecredit.com/assets/pdf/dsst_fact_sheets/DSST_IntroductiontoComputing.pdf
Honestly, I thought it was strange too. They applied both of my computing courses there (one was from my freshman year in college when I was 17, and the other was an arbitrary check the box for my associates degree because they considered my first intro to computing class to be too high a level to count as a GER. Go figure), and my actual natural sciences classes both got pushed into general education electives.
Excelsior didn't consider either of my computer courses to be natural sciences, so the courses I used to fill the requirement there were Astronomy (DSST - before they redid it), and Physical Geography (a rather entertaining easy A class I took locally so I could maximize my GI Bill benefits. A significant portion of our class time was spent watching tornado hunting videos).
It was funny, because my science courses were one of my worries when I switched to TESU - I am just not a science-y person. I like it, it's interesting, but my brain just doesn't get it the way I do other things (the exact opposite of my SO, who was an undergraduate business major and is now a high school science teacher. We have a completely different way of thinking - I research and contemplate and analyze and argue, he's the methodical hands-on get-it-done experimenter type. We make a good team though). And it turns out I didn't even need the science classes I already had, lol. One of the reasons I dismissed COSC out of hand was because they have a lab science requirement.
My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU - sanantone - 01-20-2016
bluebooger Wrote:I've seen that posted from others, but I've never been able to figure out how learning about CPUs, RAM and MS Word fulfills that requirementSome schools consider computer science to be a natural science and, therefore, a liberal art. Computer science is highly theoretical and based on advanced mathematics.
DSST physical science ? yes
CLEP biology ? yes
ECE Weather and Climate ? yes
ECE Earth Science ? yes
DSST Intro to Computing ? really ?
http://getcollegecredit.com/assets/pdf/dsst_fact_sheets/DSST_IntroductiontoComputing.pdf
My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU - bluebooger - 01-20-2016
sanantone Wrote:Some schools consider computer science to be a natural science and, therefore, a liberal art. Computer science is highly theoretical and based on advanced mathematics.
that dsst exam is hardly "highly theoretical and based on advanced mathematics"
it's barely computer science
and even a real Intro to Computer Science course doesn't have that much advanced mathematics
you can do Harvard's entire Intro to CS course with just about basic high school algebra
https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-computer-science-harvardx-cs50x
My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU - sanantone - 01-20-2016
bluebooger Wrote:that dsst exam is hardly "highly theoretical and based on advanced mathematics"Every field has intro courses. Math is still math whether it's algebra or differential equations. Since it has been determined that computer science, as a whole, is a science, then even its intro courses have to count. TESU, for some reason, has given the DSST the equivalency of intro to computer science, but it's really IT. A typical intro to computer science course is more theoretical than applied.
it's barely computer science
and even a real Intro to Computer Science course doesn't have that much advanced mathematics
you can do Harvard's entire Intro to CS course with just about basic high school algebra
https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-computer-science-harvardx-cs50x
My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU - Leherself - 01-20-2016
sanantone Wrote:Every field has intro courses. Math is still math whether it's algebra or differential equations. Since it has been determined that computer science, as a whole, is a science, then even its intro courses have to count. TESU, for some reason, has given the DSST the equivalency of intro to computer science, but it's really IT. A typical intro to computer science course is more theoretical than applied.
Ah, but they also count CIS-107 as a natural science, and that's a Computer Information Systems course. CIS is an applied field pretty much everywhere I've ever heard of, and not considered one of the liberal arts by anyone.
Looking at TESU's list of courses that fall under the "Understanding the Physical and Natural World" category though, it seems pretty clear that what they include are a pretty broad base of technology courses in general, and in fact their interpretation of a natural science class is overall extremely broad (which is probably part of why they don't actually call this requirement "natural sciences". Here are some of the courses they list that satisfy that requirement, that wouldn't usually be considered GER science courses at other universities:
AOJ-280: Forensic Science
BIO-208: The Science of Nutrition This is also offered as a TECEP exam
CIS-107: Computer Concepts and Applications This is also offered as a TECEP exam
CIS-301: Management Information Systems
CIS-311: Database Management
CIS-320: System Analysis and Design I
CIS-351: Software Engineering
COS-101: Introduction to Computers
COS-116: C Programming
COS-213: C++ Programming
COS-231: Assembly Language
COS-241: Data Structures
COS-330: Computer Architecture
COS-352: Operating Systems
COS-451: Artificial Intelligence
CTR-212: Programmable Logic Controllers
EGM-211: Statics
ELE-211: DC Circuits
ELE-212: AC Circuits
ENS-360: Environmental Sustainability and Social Justice
GLB-301: Global Issues and Society
PHI-475: Biomedical Ethics
A list that includes DC Circuits, C++ Programming, and "Social Justice" all in one place is a pretty broad list!
My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU - Leherself - 01-20-2016
Speaking of lists, here's one from TESU that I think is new. It's a list of accepted alternative credit project courses and how they transfer to TESU, including saylor and straighterline. Interestingly, some of it doesn't match the information from straighterline's website, which makes me wonder if how some of the courses are evaluated has changed recently:
Alternative Credit Project
My Experience - Excelsior vs. TESU - sanantone - 01-20-2016
Leherself Wrote:Ah, but they also count CIS-107 as a natural science, and that's a Computer Information Systems course. CIS is an applied field pretty much everywhere I've ever heard of, and not considered one of the liberal arts by anyone.
Looking at TESU's list of courses that fall under the "Understanding the Physical and Natural World" category though, it seems pretty clear that what they include are a pretty broad base of technology courses in general, and in fact their interpretation of a natural science class is overall extremely broad (which is probably part of why they don't actually call this requirement "natural sciences". Here are some of the courses they list that satisfy that requirement, that wouldn't usually be considered GER science courses at other universities:
AOJ-280: Forensic Science
BIO-208: The Science of Nutrition This is also offered as a TECEP exam
CIS-107: Computer Concepts and Applications This is also offered as a TECEP exam
CIS-301: Management Information Systems
CIS-311: Database Management
CIS-320: System Analysis and Design I
CIS-351: Software Engineering
COS-101: Introduction to Computers
COS-116: C Programming
COS-213: C++ Programming
COS-231: Assembly Language
COS-241: Data Structures
COS-330: Computer Architecture
COS-352: Operating Systems
COS-451: Artificial Intelligence
CTR-212: Programmable Logic Controllers
EGM-211: Statics
ELE-211: DC Circuits
ELE-212: AC Circuits
ENS-360: Environmental Sustainability and Social Justice
GLB-301: Global Issues and Society
PHI-475: Biomedical Ethics
A list that includes DC Circuits, C++ Programming, and "Social Justice" all in one place is a pretty broad list!
It's hit or miss whether or not CIS courses will count as a natural science at TESU. Counting Science of Nutrition as a science isn't uncommon as long as it comes out of a biology department. They told me that Bioethics wouldn't count as a science unless it came out of a biology department, so counting Biomedical Ethics with a PHI prefix is odd with that in mind.