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Guidance for Homeschoolers - justlearning - 11-17-2014
Hi I feel like I have a fairly good grasp on the basics but not sure where to start with my kids.
I homeschool my currently 13 and 14 y.o. kids. They have never attended a public school but are very active in co ops and outside classes/activities. I am interested in getting them started with some self done dual credit. We live in Texas so have very liberal homeschool laws. I'm not sure how much we need to worry at this point about the details. Should I try to set up a detailed degree plan? If we only work on an associates degree will that transfer to a 4 year college if that college accepts fewer credits by exam than we complete for a degree from a Big 3 college? If they want to work on a specific degree plan is it better to sign up now or later? (I don't understand the TESC different sign ups specifically) It will likely take several years to do a degree as they have other pursuits as well.
Thanks for any input you might have.
Guidance for Homeschoolers - GoodYellowDogs - 11-17-2014
Jennifer will answer all your questions when she sees this
Guidance for Homeschoolers - AquaDragonfly - 11-17-2014
Hi justlearning!
I also homeschool two kids, my DD who's in 7th and my DS who's an 11th grader. My son only attended a public kindergarten and that was enough for me! We've been part of co-ops from the beginning and this is actually the first year my son is not attending one, as we are part of a small group and they had no upper level classes available.
I just found out about CBE this year and my son will be taking his first CLEP soon. What I'm doing is aligning my son's required high school classes (dictated by the overbearing state of NY) to the available CLEP exams! There are basic CLEPs that most colleges will accept for credit (you can go to a specific college and search for CLEP and it will usually tell you how much credit and which tests they'll allow). Or you can just keep going and have your children get a degree from the Big 3 (which is our plan as we don't want our kids to rack up a ton of debt they may not be able to pay off quickly). For instance, my son is studying Pre-calculus at Saylor and just started Chemistry there also (online courses which he can then potentially translate into college credits). If your kids can work independently, it's a fantastic option!!
As far as setting up a degree plan, you can figure out what you want to cover with your kids over the next few years of school and see how much can be studied online (or on your own) and then find out what CBEs will go along with what you're studying. Have them study the subject, American History for example, then study to pass the CLEP exam to earn credit on top of that. That's exactly what we are doing. We aren't just cramming for a test, but learning the subject like we normally do and then working to pass the exam also. I will then award my kids transcript credit for any exam they pass (with an "A" since it's a college credit after all!).
You don't need to worry too much yet, just try a few credit-bearing exams and see how they do. I know that Thomas Edison (where we'll likely be transferring those credits), won't accept students until they have graduated high school. Then you can simply have your student write them a friendly letter explaining that they'd like to apply all those early credits they got towards a degree there! (Normally they only take students 21 and up, but it's not a big deal to start earlier in this scenario!) Be aware though, that until you have been accepted at one of the Big 3, it is possible their degree requirements may change. Then you'll see which credits will transfer over to their then-current degree plans. Pretty simple really!
Hope this helps somewhat! Wishing you and your kids the best as you pursue this daring route to a degree!
Sincerely,
Lori
:-)
Guidance for Homeschoolers - cookderosa - 11-17-2014
Hi welcome to the board! LOL Denise, I found the post!
Keep in mind how you homeschool is really up to you, but I have some opinions and suggestions, as do many other homeschool families on the board. Take what works best for you and go from there.
My opinions are based on 3 things (these don't mean I'm right anymore than anyone else, they are to help you see where I'm coming from): #1 I've homeschooled my 4 since day 1, so I'm comfortable with how homeschooling works all the way through. My oldest graduated last year, I have 1 in high school, 1 in middle school, and 1 in elementary school. #2 I worked for a community college for 18 years, 4 as an administrator of a department that required academic advising to students, 14 as a teacher. #3 I completed 1 degree traditionally and 2 via distance learning using the methods I learned here.
So.... with all that, my opinion is that you should look at your homeschool as a different entity than their college degrees. In my opinion, you should continue focusing on providing them with a wonderful, well rounded, and enriching experience in which you help them develop excellent study skills, written/verbal/public communication skills, life skills, and the 3 "R's." Within that process, you'll have multiple opportunities to inject credit earning opportunities into your homeschool. For example, at the completion of a few years of French, they would attempt the French CLEP. At the completion of Algebra 1 & 2 they can prepare for the CLEP College Algebra exam. After you're sure they can read complex literature (think paragraphs from Shakespeare, abstract poetry and King James Bible) they should take the CLEP Analyzing and Interpreting Literature exam. As to when they take the exams, it just depends on when they fall in your homeschool. With some planning, you can throw in 1 or 2 opportunities every year to attempt credit; if they hit the target great, if not, not a problem. The point is learning (not credit earning). At their ages, it's all you 100%. You pick their curriculum, you pick the topics, schedule, assignments, etc. I wouldn't allow mine to enroll in a class a that age, but that's because I like being their teacher at that age and I'm not ready to delegate that out just yet. (I do have an 8th grader taking an online computer class right now, but it's not really a class- there is no teacher). I believe the homeschool parent should be the director in middle school, and their guidance counselor in high school.
As you head into high school, I'd be more deliberate about planning 1-2-3 classes per year that allow credit attempts. Once you hit 11th and 12th grade, you may have access to free or reduced cost dual enrollment at your community college. You can look ahead and see what they offer, because if your child earns credit now, they won't want to duplicate community college credit later. (it won't count twice) I suggest keeping your homeschool grades completely separate from their college earning scores/grades/fails. They really have nothing to do with each other (except for AP classes and actual college classes taken through a regionally accredited college).
I'm not going to lie, I always have my eye on degrees for my kids- I have lists, excel spreadsheets and bookmarks...but I keep them private. I use them for planning because I can't turn off the part of my brain that has me here digging every day for the past several years....however, as much as I "know" this stuff, the college process is one that I believe should be directed by the person earning the degree. Consider that doing too much for them *can* be a disadvantage because they'll fear that developing their own aspirations won't fit into the degree plan you set for them in middle school.
Guidance for Homeschoolers - justlearning - 11-18-2014
Thank you for your well thought out replies. I appreciate it. We have definitely been eclectic in our approach thus far so much of what you guys have said resonates with me. I had planned on doing the Clep or DSST exams to start that are of interest to them and that fit in with where I would like them to be with their education. I guess I will start with the core and worry about everything else later.
Do you happen to know if they obtain an associates degree if the entire degree transfers to a bachelor program outside of the big 3 or if it will be broken down and only the amount of CBE that the school allows will be transferred in? I haven't been able to find this info anywhere. I spoke with my local CC about dual credit but they refuse to address the question when asked. Not sure why.
Guidance for Homeschoolers - SteveFoerster - 11-18-2014
GoodYellowDogs Wrote:Jennifer will answer all your questions when she sees thisI know, I saw this and thought, "And Jennifer enters in 3... 2... 1..."
Guidance for Homeschoolers - cookderosa - 11-18-2014
justlearning Wrote:Thank you for your well thought out replies. I appreciate it. We have definitely been eclectic in our approach thus far so much of what you guys have said resonates with me. I had planned on doing the Clep or DSST exams to start that are of interest to them and that fit in with where I would like them to be with their education. I guess I will start with the core and worry about everything else later.
Do you happen to know if they obtain an associates degree if the entire degree transfers to a bachelor program outside of the big 3 or if it will be broken down and only the amount of CBE that the school allows will be transferred in? I haven't been able to find this info anywhere. I spoke with my local CC about dual credit but they refuse to address the question when asked. Not sure why.
They won't answer because they don't know outside of their school; no different than asking a McDonald's manager how to run a Taco Bell. (it's lunch time here lol)
If you obtain an associates degree from your local community college (or any college) you will NOT have an automatic block transfer into any college. There are tons of exceptions, but as a rule: no.
If you obtain an associates degree from your local community college as part of a WRITTEN ARTICULATION agreement (your school has these) then your child is guaranteed transfer into the 4 year university. As a rule, when this happens, all of their CBE credit is swept into the program without being evaluated. So, the receiving college's CLEP policy is overridden, but the community college's CLEP policy must be followed while the transfer degree is in progress. It's a beautiful thing. You can find a list of these college agreements on every community college website you come across. There are exceptions (like Texas and California- sneaky little rules in those two states) but as a rule: yes.
If you obtain an associates degree and send the degree to the big 3, they will NOT accept it as a block of credit. Each and every exam/credit will be evaluated. They will accept 100% of the credit you send if it fits the degree plan and is from a regionally accredited college and or ACE, which makes planning very very easy.
If you opt to NOT use a community college at all (for dual enrollment or otherwise) and stick strictly to CLEP/DSST, then you do need to look at the ending institution's CBE policy first. Of course, since enrollment may be 5+ years away, those rules can (and probably will) change at least twice between now and then, so they are good to know about- but won't be set in stone until your teen applies.
Guidance for Homeschoolers - justlearning - 11-18-2014
So, what might those sneaky little rules in Texas be? Since we are in Texas and I imagine we will be finishing up our college at a Texas school these would apply to us. I did read on our local CC website that their dual credit program would fully transfer to a Tx state college. I guess I will need to consider going by their CBE rules and getting their AA/AS there to transfer onto a 4 year.
Guidance for Homeschoolers - cookderosa - 11-18-2014
justlearning Wrote:So, what might those sneaky little rules in Texas be? Since we are in Texas and I imagine we will be finishing up our college at a Texas school these would apply to us. I did read on our local CC website that their dual credit program would fully transfer to a Tx state college. I guess I will need to consider going by their CBE rules and getting their AA/AS there to transfer onto a 4 year.
You're exactly on track. If you already know the program(s) you might use for 11/12 grades, I'd just work backwards. It's good to know all the programs in your area that offer dual enrollment so you can compare. Make a list of which schools transfer where, what the requirements are and what pre-reqs are required for those classes. (for instance, your teen probably can't enroll in English 101 without a certain entrance exam score, and probably can't enroll in some sciences without College Algebra.) I'd also compare prices of tuition as well as prices for tuition. (a college that takes more CLEP might be cheaper, but not if the remaining credits required are super expensive, you just have to work the numbers. Also, is dual enrollment free or do you need to pay? If so, how much? Is there a limit to the number of dual enrollment credits your teen can take?).
When the time comes, if you decide to have your teen complete the full AA/AS for transfer, you'll want to be sure they are formally registered for that process. Some places require a written articulation agreement be filed BEFORE starting the program. This is so super duper important to know ahead of time, it makes the difference to the plan working. Some schools also have a requirement that you obtain an advisor at the target school or other hoops. This would require you knowing where your teen hopes to attend, and a rough idea of major, but if he does know, you can really plan well. Remember, things change- policy with the school and interests of your teen, so flexibility is good. If it were my teen following the goals you've outlined so far, I'd probably stick with credits that are highly likely to transfer (community college, dual enrollment community college, CLEP, AP) and stay away from the limited transfer options (TECEP, UExcel, DSST, Straighterline, ALEKS, ACE) and avoid the improbable transfer (Nationally Accredited classes).
I'll see if I can review the Texas hoops and I'll follow up on that.
EDIT: I forgot to say, colleges aren't especially happy to talk with parents. Once your teen turns 18 it's illegal for them to do so, so 99% of the time, a community college never meets a parent, so this whole trend of minors being in the CC system puts them in an uncomfortable spot. You may even experience hostility. If your school has a dual enrollment coordinator, that might be a better point of contact than an advisor. Also, I've met 2 dual enrollment coordinators who were clueless (out of 2) so whatever info they share, you really need it in writing. And believe me, it's all written down, you just have to ask for it.
Guidance for Homeschoolers - PonyGirl93 - 11-22-2014
cookderosa Wrote:If you obtain an associates degree from your local community college as part of a WRITTEN ARTICULATION agreement (your school has these) then your child is guaranteed transfer into the 4 year university. As a rule, when this happens, all of their CBE credit is swept into the program without being evaluated. So, the receiving college's CLEP policy is overridden, but the community college's CLEP policy must be followed while the transfer degree is in progress. It's a beautiful thing. You can find a list of these college agreements on every community college website you come across. There are exceptions (like Texas and California- sneaky little rules in those two states) but as a rule: yes.Oh that is a sneaky bit of genius! Just an FYI, though, for any curious lurkers, this probably wouldn't ever work with Ohio or maybe some other states, because the state college system has gone through a unification overhaul, so community colleges strictly adhere to a state university's policy (on everything, sigh.) So Columbus State CC sticks to OSU's policy, Clark State CC to Wright State U's, etc. It's great if you want to transfer classes, they streamlined that process beautifully, but it makes transferring exam credit a sad thing. Just always make sure you check each individual school, never assume anything.