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Free College Degree for US - mrs.b - 10-10-2014
Where to get a free college degree - CBS News
Thoughts? Wouldn't it be nice if US education could at least pick up the hint, if not take a direct page that higher education does not need to cost more than a house, and should not take students the majority of their working career to pay off?
Free College Degree for US - sanantone - 10-10-2014
Tennessee has made community colleges free for recent high school graduates. Oregon is thinking about doing the same thing. Since so many community college students receive grants, I think the states should be able to get the federal money instead, combine it with their own grants and subsidies to community colleges, and just make them all free. It cuts out the middle man.
Free College Degree for US - cookderosa - 10-10-2014
I think the assumption made by the general public is that cost is a barrier to entry or completion; total myth. It might be a barrier to entry for some people who can't afford the private out of state liberal arts college of their dreams because their grades don't qualify for scholarship, so they borrow the max and still don't have enough, so they drop out with nothing but a big fat loan and no degree... but I think for 99% of the eligible population, money isn't even a blip on anyone's radar. People don't blink at borrowing money- and it's guaranteed by our govt that you can! You can get through college without any debt if you want, I won't ramble for hours listing the ways, we all know them.
I think the elephant in the room is that CC completion rates are around 10% and no one talks about it. (uni rates are higher) That's not about money. I worked in higher ed for my whole adult life, there are about a thousand things that are barriers to completion, but sometimes it's just flat out a case of character. Not showing up, not turning in papers, rather be partying, etc. Sure, it might be too hard for some students, but if you're in a CC you have open enrollment that has created a system set up to deal with EVERY LEVEL of academic readiness, and if you're in a private uni, you qualified based on their criteria- so you can do the work.
It's possible that people just don't wanna.
Free College Degree for US - sanantone - 10-10-2014
cookderosa Wrote:I think the assumption made by the general public is that cost is a barrier to entry or completion; total myth. It might be a barrier to entry for some people who can't afford the private out of state liberal arts college of their dreams because their grades don't qualify for scholarship, so they borrow the max and still don't have enough, so they drop out with nothing but a big fat loan and no degree... but I think for 99% of the eligible population, money isn't even a blip on anyone's radar. People don't blink at borrowing money- and it's guaranteed by our govt that you can! You can get through college without any debt if you want, I won't ramble for hours listing the ways, we all know them.
I think the elephant in the room is that CC completion rates are around 10% and no one talks about it. (uni rates are higher) That's not about money. I worked in higher ed for my whole adult life, there are about a thousand things that are barriers to completion, but sometimes it's just flat out a case of character. Not showing up, not turning in papers, rather be partying, etc. Sure, it might be too hard for some students, but if you're in a CC you have open enrollment that has created a system set up to deal with EVERY LEVEL of academic readiness, and if you're in a private uni, you qualified based on their criteria- so you can do the work.
It's possible that people just don't wanna.
It's estimated that CC graduation rates would be as high as 40% if you counted those who transferred and finished at 4-year colleges without finishing their associate's degrees. It is kind of odd that I would be counted as a community college failure even though I've completed a bachelor's and master's degree.
Free College Degree for US - UptonSinclair - 10-10-2014
Without alternative education options, finishing college without debt is rare. My daughter is attending a state university and the tuition is approx. $10,000 per year. She makes $600 per month at her food service job and I pay her rent. Without my help, there is no way she could afford to attend college. I believe cost is a huge barrier to education in this country.
Free College Degree for US - Johann - 10-10-2014
cookderosa Wrote:I think the elephant in the room is that CC completion rates are around 10% and no one talks about it. (uni rates are higher)...Wow! That's some elephant! Things appear to be different at Community Colleges in Canada - certainly for those here in Ontario. I'm a fan of our CCs and a grad of two of them. Bin ta university, too, an' got papers ta show fer all of 't.
The 2013-2014 completion rate for all Ontario Community Colleges is 65.4%.Grad. rates and more interesting stats here: KPIs (Key Performance Indicators)
http://www.collegesontario.org/outcomes/key-performance-indicators/2013-14_KPI_English.pdf
Johann
Free College Degree for US - Ubuntu_user - 10-10-2014
I can't help but bring this question to the table: is there any possibility that "free college" would devalue the college degree both to the degree pursuer and/or the employer? The reason I ask is because we have many examples of people pushing harder for that which has a price and doesn't come easy. In other words, some times cost incentivizes (my own made-up word?) motivation. But also, if degrees are dime a dozen because of low, or no, cost, what kind of effect could that have on employers' hiring mentalities?
Furthermore, let's just say that free college education devalued degree's worth, would it be necessary for academia to become "harder" or more rigorous in order to add back the value to the perceived value of a college degree??
Free College Degree for US - Johann - 10-10-2014
Ubuntu_user Wrote:...is there any possibility that "free college" would devalue the college degree both to the degree pursuer and/or the employer?Germany doesn't think so - they've recently passed a similar plan for tuition-free degrees. And college used to be "hard" enough. It should continue to be "hard" and I don't foresee any negative effect on rigor from eliminating tuition. I'm OK with free or low-cost; that in itself will never dilute the value of a degree. It might make some folks mad for a while - those who had to pay through the nose for their own degrees. But that will pass... even in my case.
What need to be raised (as tuition is lowered) are the standards for entry into college. Right now, many colleges have to take pretty well anyone with basic qualifications who applies, because they need the funding. And student loans are available to anyone with a pulse. That needs to change. We need students 100% capable of learning. Right now, many schools take those who are 100% capable of paying - with their own, their parents' or ...borrowed money. Over a trillion dollars of it, at present.
If anyone's going to oppose eliminating tuition, it will be the lenders. Poof! There goes their market! I think it should be harder to get into college, appropriately rigorous to get through - and if a person qualifies to attend, money should not have to be much of a consideration.
Johann
PS. Any college that isn't "hard" enough may have had to water down its programs, to retain students who were academically weak but could still continue to get their hands on tuition-money. The school would lower the standards and ensure maximum passing grades - strictly for monetary reasons. Take tuition out of the equation and presto -- the rigor problem is resolved.
Free College Degree for US - Johann - 10-10-2014
In fewer words:
I think the value of any degree is in what was taught and what was learned. Not in how much - or how little - was paid for it.
J.
Free College Degree for US - cookderosa - 10-10-2014
sanantone Wrote:It's estimated that CC graduation rates would be as high as 40% if you counted those who transferred and finished at 4-year colleges without finishing their associate's degrees. It is kind of odd that I would be counted as a community college failure even though I've completed a bachelor's and master's degree.
40%, 50% or even 60% is still crap! But that's another discussion. A discussion I enjoy, but I don't want to get off track lol.
That statistic (assuming it's true) isn't saying 40% of people, it's saying 40% of STARTERS. These are people that STARTED and enrolled. These people had the cash for day 1. It's not about money.