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Criminal Justice: The Unethical Cash Cow - sanantone - 03-14-2014
I figured that there might be current and former criminal justice students here who would be interested in discussing this topic. I have found it extremely disturbing how many criminal justice programs are popping up. As some schools are seeing declining enrollment, they have been starting up criminal justice programs. They know this major attracts a lot of students. I think it has the potential to break into the top 10 of most popular majors in the U.S. It might already be in the top 10.
The problem I have with this is that criminal justice degrees are not in demand. There are a lot of police officer openings in some states. There are always a lot of security guard openings everywhere. However, a very small percentage of these jobs require a degree. Among the jobs that require a degree, a very small percentage exclusively require a degree in CJ. This is why Payscale ranked CJ as the second most underemployed major.
Criminal Justice Major Underemployment Stats
According to the 2013 Georgetown study of 2010/2011 unemployment rates, newly graduated CJ majors aren't doing so great in that area either. They might be doing a little better now if cities have stopped cutting back on the police officer positions that don't even require a degree in the first place.
http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi...mes.2013.2.pdf
But, one of my biggest pet peeves is that it seems like most students don't know what is going to be studied in criminal justice programs. It is not a social work degree, it is not the police academy, it is not forensic science unless it has that concentration attached, and it is far from being the best preparation for law school.
http://www.potsdam.edu/academics/AAS...-of-Majors.pdf
I thought students being bored with CJ was just a problem at my type of school since it is a nationally-accredited school that accepts students who can barely read. It's amazing how many of them think they can immediately start working as police officers after they graduated without having to go through an academy. However, for the introductory course of my PhD program, we read an article that discussed how criminal justice students aren't really interested in criminal justice after they discover what criminal justice is really about. My professor has also found this to be the case at the universities for which he's taught. This really isn't an issue at the graduate level because those students have already decided that CJ is interesting enough to continue studying it. Still, the number of PhDs in CJ aren't enough to keep up with the growth of undergraduate programs, so schools are still heavily relying on sociology PhDs to fill the gap.
Criminal Justice: The Unethical Cash Cow - Prloko - 03-14-2014
sanantone Wrote:I figured that there might be current and former criminal justice students here who would be interested in discussing this topic. I have found it extremely disturbing how many criminal justice programs are popping up. As some schools are seeing declining enrollment, they have been starting up criminal justice programs. They know this major attracts a lot of students. I think it has the potential to break into the top 10 of most popular majors in the U.S. It might already be in the top 10.
The problem I have with this is that criminal justice degrees are not in demand. There are a lot of police officer openings in some states. There are always a lot of security guard openings everywhere. However, a very small percentage of these jobs require a degree. Among the jobs that require a degree, a very small percentage exclusively require a degree in CJ. This is why Payscale ranked CJ as the second most underemployed major.
Criminal Justice Major Underemployment Stats
According to the 2013 Georgetown study of 2010/2011 unemployment rates, newly graduated CJ majors aren't doing so great in that area either. They might be doing a little better now if cities have stopped cutting back on the police officer positions that don't even require a degree in the first place.
http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi...mes.2013.2.pdf
But, one of my biggest pet peeves is that it seems like most students don't know what is going to be studied in criminal justice programs. It is not a social work degree, it is not the police academy, it is not forensic science unless it has that concentration attached, and it is far from being the best preparation for law school.
http://www.potsdam.edu/academics/AAS...-of-Majors.pdf
I thought students being bored with CJ was just a problem at my type of school since it is a nationally-accredited school that accepts students who can barely read. It's amazing how many of them think they can immediately start working as police officers after they graduated without having to go through an academy. However, for the introductory course of my PhD program, we read an article that discussed how criminal justice students aren't really interested in criminal justice after they discover what criminal justice is really about. My professor has also found this to be the case at the universities for which he's taught. This really isn't an issue at the graduate level because those students have already decided that CJ is interesting enough to continue studying it. Still, the number of PhDs in CJ aren't enough to keep up with the growth of undergraduate programs, so schools are still heavily relying on sociology PhDs to fill the gap.
Universities/Colleges/ Tech Schools are just like any other business. They are responsive to demand economics. Students just seem to be enamored with CJ (is TV partially to blame?), schools are just meeting that demand. Ethics comes into play only when the school makes grandiose promises of employment when they know that isn't the case.
Another career that overtrains is paralegal. I remember during the 80s, everyone wanted to be a paralegal, and the schools jumped to the demand. The 90s was medical billing/ or dental assistant, 00s, was CJ, it seems the one for the 10s will be CS/programming, especially "video game design".
Criminal Justice: The Unethical Cash Cow - Prloko - 03-14-2014
sanantone Wrote:But, one of my biggest pet peeves is that it seems like most students don't know what is going to be studied in criminal justice programs. It is not a social work degree, it is not the police academy, it is not forensic science unless it has that concentration attached, and it is far from being the best preparation for law school.
http://www.potsdam.edu/academics/AAS...-of-Majors.pdf
I thought students being bored with CJ was just a problem at my type of school since it is a nationally-accredited school that accepts students who can barely read. It's amazing how many of them think they can immediately start working as police officers after they graduated without having to go through an academy. However, for the introductory course of my PhD program, we read an article that discussed how criminal justice students aren't really interested in criminal justice after they discover what criminal justice is really about. My professor has also found this to be the case at the universities for which he's taught. This really isn't an issue at the graduate level because those students have already decided that CJ is interesting enough to continue studying it. Still, the number of PhDs in CJ aren't enough to keep up with the growth of undergraduate programs, so schools are still heavily relying on sociology PhDs to fill the gap.
That is interesting. I myself thought there was some application based study involved. So CJ is the study of criminal behavior from a sociological, psychological, philosophical and political point of view, not necessarily crime fighting, but the system as a whole.
Did I get that right for the most part?
Criminal Justice: The Unethical Cash Cow - ironheadjack - 03-14-2014
sanantone Wrote:It's amazing how many of them think they can immediately start working as police officers after they graduated without having to go through an academy.
Wow.... that's just sad. That people can be so naive and do no research for there potential career choices.
Criminal Justice: The Unethical Cash Cow - rebel100 - 03-14-2014
I think your concern is well founded, but I suspect the complaint could be lodged against many degree paths. EMS. Art majors, Theatre, veterinary science, there is a huge list of degree programs that the uninformed might be lulled into if they approach their education haphazardly. Hell, I've been guilty of it. We might all be guilty of high expectations and inflated value of the things we find interesting, I can't fault the student for it. On the other hand, as mentioned previously, the school fills the programs demanded by the students. Were I the chancellor of a college with the challenges and financial responsibility of keeping my school in the black I would happily add CJ or shark science, or the proverbial underwater basket weaving degree plans if it filled the seats. If necessary I would justify these programs the same way we justify high school football....it pays for the other programs.
On a personal level I agree with you 100%, just recently I tried to dissuade someone from earning a degree in emergency management right here at IC. EM sounds like an exciting career where you pluck people off flooded roof tops, crawl through rubble to find trapped babies, and rescue kittens from treetops...in reality you sit in endless meetings, write operational plans that may never be read and manage diverse groups. Often these groups include senior management whom you have to educate on just how little they know and why they should do it your way. All that if your fortunate enough to actually land an EM job in what is perhaps the tightest job market in half a century. With all that said, I still think we need some folks who are educated in the latest cutting edge EM principles and practices....but its up to the individual to ferret all this out, not necessarily the school.
Criminal Justice: The Unethical Cash Cow - sanantone - 03-14-2014
You all are right that prospective students should do their research. But, I did find it interesting that Texas A&M is limiting the number of students it admits to its popular petroleum engineering program because of the tight job market.
Prloko Wrote:That is interesting. I myself thought there was some application based study involved. So CJ is the study of criminal behavior from a sociological, psychological, philosophical and political point of view, not necessarily crime fighting, but the system as a whole.CJ is an applied social science. It attempts to apply social science theories to solve real world problems of crime, but this is mostly policy stuff. CJ students typically won't learn things like shooting, handcuffing, and defensive tactics. They won't even learn the state and local laws that are taught in the academy. Of course, with online programs where you have students from all over the country, it wouldn't make sense to do this anyway.
Did I get that right for the most part?
Criminal Justice: The Unethical Cash Cow - TMW2010 - 03-14-2014
sanantone Wrote:CJ is an applied social science. It attempts to apply social science theories to solve real world problems of crime, but this is mostly policy stuff.
As a Psych/Education major, this is the exact reason why I enjoyed the CJ classes I took, and wished I could have wedged a few more in there. I have no desire to go into law enforcement, except possibly as a consultant, but I find the classes in CJ fascinating. And I do believe that todays LEOs should have a background and an understanding of the underlying theories concerning criminology, victimology, and other areas. But yeah, from what I've seen, these fly-by-night AAS programs only cover the theory portion, not actual protocols or other practical portions. But isn't that what the academy is for?
I had great fun in my Criminology course, which as you said was a straight out examination of social theories. If things go as planned in the next month, I might be able to take 'Forensic Psychology' graduate classes at one of the big For-Profits for free since none of their other offerings appeal to me. Psychology of Criminal Behavior, Maladaptive Behavior and Psychopathology, Interrogation & Interviewing, Police Psychology and Correctional Psychology all are fascinating to me. Would I do anything with an actual degree in Forensic Psych? Probably not, but as I tell my own students, take the 'fun' courses when you can.
Criminal Justice: The Unethical Cash Cow - sanantone - 03-14-2014
TMW2010 Wrote:As a Psych/Education major, this is the exact reason why I enjoyed the CJ classes I took, and wished I could have wedged a few more in there. I have no desire to go into law enforcement, except possibly as a consultant, but I find the classes in CJ fascinating. And I do believe that todays LEOs should have a background and an understanding of the underlying theories concerning criminology, victimology, and other areas. But yeah, from what I've seen, these fly-by-night AAS programs only cover the theory portion, not actual protocols or other practical portions. But isn't that what the academy is for?
I had great fun in my Criminology course, which as you said was a straight out examination of social theories. If things go as planned in the next month, I might be able to take 'Forensic Psychology' graduate classes at one of the big For-Profits for free since none of their other offerings appeal to me. Psychology of Criminal Behavior, Maladaptive Behavior and Psychopathology, Interrogation & Interviewing, Police Psychology and Correctional Psychology all are fascinating to me. Would I do anything with an actual degree in Forensic Psych? Probably not, but as I tell my own students, take the 'fun' courses when you can.
That's the problem. Most of the undergraduate students are not like you. They don't want to hear about the court cases that affected due process and use of force policies. They don't want to learn about how the Broken Windows Theory has been applied to patrol functions. They want to go to a gun range, drive patrol vehicles, and learn how to whack someone with a baton. Learning about the programs used to rehabilitate offenders and policies created to prevent crime is boring to them.
Criminal Justice: The Unethical Cash Cow - TMW2010 - 03-14-2014
sanantone Wrote:That's the problem. Most of the undergraduate students are not like you. They don't want to hear about the court cases that affected due process and use of force policies. They don't want to learn about how the Broken Windows Theory has been applied to patrol functions. They want to go to a gun range, drive patrol vehicles, and learn how to whack someone with a baton. Learning about the programs used to rehabilitate offenders and policies created to prevent crime is boring to them.
Yeah, I run into this with my students from different programs (as I teach Gen Ed courses atm). There's plenty of places that offer these kinds of things a la carte, especially those specific practical areas you mentioned. They can learn how to do all that stuff outside of college; but most often, it's not going to apply to a degree, though it might apply to some sort of certification they want or need. But the students are at colleges like the ones that you and I teach at for the education that leads to a degree. They need to suck it up and become interested in the material and see how they can use it to benefit themselves and their career. That is of course, if it does indeed benefit the career, which was the main gist of your first post.
Criminal Justice: The Unethical Cash Cow - rebel100 - 03-14-2014
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