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...There Are No Words... - ShotoJuku - 12-18-2012
![[Image: sandy-hook-elementary-school.jpg]](http://www.curiositiesbydickens.com/wp-content/uploads/sandy-hook-elementary-school.jpg)
...There Are No Words... - HorseManiac - 12-18-2012
You are absolutely right. There are no words! Such beautiful people....
Their families are in my thoughts and prayers!
...There Are No Words... - merolpn - 12-18-2012
My job takes me into or through Newtown once or twice every couple of weeks. It is absolutely sickening and I won't ever drive through and feel the same about it. These families are basically my neighbors and customers. I can't even comprehend the disconnect from reality that would allow someone to harm any person, let alone little children. He was not a normal person, none of them are. How can someone drive to a mall, school or theater with an AR and think "I am going to kill people and the world is going to remember ME" It seems to me that we have a sick underworld of lunatics trying to one-up each other for a spot in the worlds sickest column in some record book. It makes me want to vomit when I think about it.
...There Are No Words... - OE800_85 - 12-18-2012
You know China had an equally sick person recently who went into a primary school, attacked 22 children, and one elderly lady. A horrible story, but no one died. Want to know why? He couldn't get a gun, he could only get a knife. Having access to heavy artillery is just asking for trouble. If we want to save more lives in the future, we need to get serious about this debate.
...There Are No Words... - merolpn - 12-19-2012
OE800_85 Wrote:You know China had an equally sick person recently who went into a primary school, attacked 22 children, and one elderly lady. A horrible story, but no one died. Want to know why? He couldn't get a gun, he could only get a knife. Having access to heavy artillery is just asking for trouble. If we want to save more lives in the future, we need to get serious about this debate.
I think that placing the blame on the access to guns does an injustice to the other 80+ million people in the country that own guns and will never cause harm. China is a different story. I have family in China and it's not any place I would compare the U.S. to, guns or not. There is no doubt that had he not stolen his mothers gun, murdered her with it then stole her other guns before stealing her car to drive to the school illegally carrying the handguns, none of this would have happened. That is quite obvious. The best estimates I have heard are that there were 1.5-2 million AR rifles sold in the country in that last five years. There are millions more that were produced and sold since the 60's and only 3 come to mind that have caused harm. Murders committed with ANY rifle in this country are about one third of the amount committed with knives and about half the amount of people murdered with bare hands or feet. In this case as in the mall shooting, the rifles were stolen. Aurora is the only case that comes to mind where it was legally purchased by the perpetrator. I think all of these cases including the Gabby Giffords case points to a fractured and failed mental health system. It seems to me to be more of a sick game of lunatics trying to one up each other for their spot in some sick record book. The media makes celebrities out of these jerks. It is said that there is no link between aspergers (supposedly what this killer had) and violence, well maybe now there is or perhaps the media reports of his condition are wrong. Maybe he was misdiagnosed. Either way we need to get serious about treating people to keep others safe. Whether we like it or not, there are approximately 300 million firearms in this country along with the worlds largest supply of precision machinery in private hands in which to make more. A ban may be an obstacle for some murders but in the big picture it will only destroy a 3 billion dollar a year industry while having virtually no effect on crime. A better approach to lower crime may be something like a nationwide expansion of the Kansas City gun experiment to get guns away from high risk individuals. I think 99% of gun owners would have no problem if asked to show a permit. CT was supposed to start targeted patrols of high crime areas but some civil rights groups are fighting it saying it is profiling. I hope it still happens.
Also, just to clear something up, despite what you may see on the news, the AR rifle in .223 caliber is not "heavy artillery" nor is it even a "high powered" rifle. It is technically not even an "assault rifle" which is a media coined name. CT has a very specific definition of what an "Assault rifle" is and any gun sold in the state must not meet that definition. Granted, the definition is based solely on cosmetic features that make it look more military in appearance and has nothing to do with the way it operates, but that is the problem when people who know zilch about guns make the laws.
...There Are No Words... - mrs.b - 12-19-2012
merolpn Wrote:It is said that there is no link between aspergers (supposedly what this killer had) and violence, well maybe now there is or perhaps the media reports of his condition are wrong. Maybe he was misdiagnosed. Either way we need to get serious about treating people to keep others safe.
Please say you meant to say that differently or better, and you were not actually trying to say people with Aspergers are pre-disposed to violence or anything remotely connected to what happened at that school. I'll reserve any further comments for the opportunity to correct and clarify what I hope was a poorly worded argument.
...There Are No Words... - merolpn - 12-19-2012
mrs.b Wrote:Please say you meant to say that differently or better, and you were not actually trying to say people with Aspergers are pre-disposed to violence or anything remotely connected to what happened at that school. I'll reserve any further comments for the opportunity to correct and clarify what I hope was a poorly worded argument.
NO, I did not mean to imply that there is any predisposition. If the media reports are correct about his condition it is only one data point. I meant it to lead into the fact that we have a mental health system that needs work. Thanks for pointing that out. I won't edit the post so others understand yours.
...There Are No Words... - mrs.b - 12-19-2012
merolpn Wrote:NO, I did not mean to imply that there is any predisposition. If the media reports are correct about his condition it is only one data point. I meant it to lead into the fact that we have a mental health system that needs work. Thanks for pointing that out. I won't edit the post so others understand yours.
Okay, whew. Thank you. It is a personally sensitive subject, as a parent of a child with this same diagnosis who is the most gentle soul you might meet and cries when he accidentally steps on a bug, that some people are making those connections. I had to stop watching most media coverage or listening to the radio shows I typically do because I have heard more than a few comments to that effect, and I thought I was seeing it again. Glad I reserved the bum-chewing I queued up there - and thank you for clarifying.
To clarify my own stance, though, Aspergers people are not suffers of some illness, deranged, mentally deficient, broken and in need of fixing, nor are they violent. Saying Adam Lanza's diagnosis of Autism / Aspergers should have clued anyone in to the potential for extreme violence is like saying he was a white male so that fact should have clued in to the potential for mass murder. Both are ridiculous connections to make, but the ignorant and intentionally uniformed make similar statements all day since this happened without looking into what they're talking about.
It is natural for any of us with half a heart to be shocked by what happened on Friday. It is natural for all of us to want to make instant corrections to the problem, but the simple fact is...there is no applicable snap solution that can be made.
The flawed mental health system may be partly to blame. My husband and I make close to $100k a year, but we own a home in a neighborhood where the average household income is less than half that, because services necessary to give our son a fighting chance to succeed in a "normal" society that views Autistic people as sick or worse are not covered under medical insurance, and they cost a LOT of money out of pocket. Since we have worked as hard as we have to be as successful as we are, we make too much to qualify for any of the available sources of aid. The public services through the school system are minimal at best (if they are given as they are supposed to), and to force them to be given, you have to be a helicopter parent that is constantly hovering over the people responsible. The system is broken, but the most reasonable fixes to me take away resources other people also need. So what is the answer?
Gun control might be a solution, but I won't bother going down that road because far too many people have taken advantage of these children's deaths to use as a platform and opportunity to push personal agendas. I'll leave it to that crowd.
I would personally rather let the families have peace and quiet to grieve, along with the rest of us, and once we are all rational and calm, and the authorities have had time to perform adequate investigations, try to come up with rational solutions. We will never be able to make everyone safe 100% of the time - people that intend to do evil things will find a way, no matter the protections against it - but there is always room for improvement. Snap judgments based on flawed media coverage (the majority of the media reports from Friday were entirely incorrect) and emotional responses may make us feel better on the short term, but it is likely to miss the mark of doing anything other than waste time, effort, and budget when the real problems are not addressed and something similar happens again in the future.
...There Are No Words... - merolpn - 12-19-2012
Alright, I'm glad that I got that cleared up. I have too much experience with the mental health system in trying to get help for a family member. I understand everything you described although it was not a child I needed to help but the income thing was an obstacle. I feel that I can speak from experience on that issue. I also agree on the snap-knee-jerk reactions and the willingness to slap down new laws.
They should just really chill out and get the facts straight. I am not opposed to more gun control if the appropriate time is taken to get it right. Some laws are good, more may be needed. Some countries administer a psychological exam, some have graduated licensing, these could be a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, when the government feels that they have to do something NOW, it is usually wrong.
...There Are No Words... - ryoder - 12-19-2012
What we have a problem with is empathy. Some people don't care how their actions affect other people and in this case the effect was severe loss of innocent life. It is sheer terrorism and evil at work. So sad.