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Starting Almost Completely Over at TESC - Tedium - 06-05-2012
Well, here's the deal. As many of you may have read, I was trying very hard to help change Southern New Hampshire University's CBE policy. They have been stonewalling me or giving me "we're still talking about it". Now I find out I am going to have to re-take Literary Theory because they don't accept it as a direct transfer from my last university, even though the course descriptions are almost exactly the same. I wouldn't have an issue, at least with the work, re-taking the class, but this is sort of a principle issue. They added a year and a half to my graduation date with their deceptive CBE policies, and now I have to re-take this class. That's pretty much the last straw for me. I am paying for a private university and I could be putting that money toward Grad. school.
Here is my dilemma: I had some family issues my last few terms and I couldn't complete all of my work so I got failing grades in the last few terms. Like an idiot I kept registering for new terms thinking, "I'll make it up this term." That was a mistake. Lesson learned: don't attempt classes you are not 100% sure that you can complete. I screwed up and I know it.
I want to get into an English Graduate program, either MA or MFA Fiction, and they want your transcripts from all schools and usually a 3.0 in at least the last 60 hours. I could pull off the 3.0 for the remaining hours, but I have a feeling that once they look at those Fs or my cumulative GPA and they will reject me without a second thought.
So here is my plan: Start almost completely over at TESC. Start the BA English program with only the 18 CLEP/DSST credits I have now. 60 CBE credits(all will have to be RA), 27 credits at schools like LSU extension or BYU for the upper level English credits, and 36 hours at TESC (which I think would be a full-time year). I would need to be a full-time student in order to get my financial aid money which I would use to finance my courses at other programs and my CBEs. I may have to adjust those CBE numbers based on how many hours I have already attempted to stay within the 150% federal limit. I will find out for sure tomorrow how exactly how many I have attempted. And I want to take as many courses as possible so that a school can't say anything about a lack of "actual" course work.
Reasoning: It would actually take me less time and money to do it this way at TESC than to finish at SNHU. I am thinking I can finish in a year or year and a half at most. Also, from what I have been able to gather from this forum and other sources, a Graduate program is only interested in the credits that go toward your degree. If I don't use any of my past credits for my degree, they won't ask for those transcripts. That and my cumulative GPA would improve. Is this completely off base? I am pretty sure it works in theory, but can anyone confirm or refute this idea about Grad. school, all ethics aside. I know that it might ultimately depend on each school, but I would like to know some opinions about this in general.
I have already contacted both TESC and COSC with this idea and it turns out that TESC is most on board with this plan. They are also a bit cheaper and I feel like the major (as opposed to concentration) would better serve me when scouting out Grad. schools.
Sorry for the novel of a post. I haven't had a lot of sleep in the past few days trying to sort all of this out and I could really use some other eyes on this to let me know that I am not completely crazy.
Starting Almost Completely Over at TESC - Prloko - 06-05-2012
Thanks for the update on the SNHU debacle. I was just about to apply and you saved me a lot of headache. Thanks for the info. A rep contacted me about transferrring, whe I asked about the CLEP limits, I never received a reply.
As far as the BYU IS courses, I can't speak for the English courses, but the Accounting course was no walk in the park. A lot of info and studying, but a great course. The speech course was cake.
Starting Almost Completely Over at TESC - Tedium - 06-05-2012
You know, it's weird. I thought it was an honest mistake at first that they did not list their CBE limits, but now I'm not so sure. I think they may be doing it in an attempt to rope in as many new recruits as possible.
FOR THE RECORD: SNHU only allows 15 CLEP or DSST credits, or "five classes" as they like to say. They agreed with me that the policy was not listed any where, and said that they would be making this policy visible for other prospective or current students. This was in Aug. or Sept. of last year and they have still refused to list it in the new handbook or on the website. I have informed them several times of this issue. I even did my homework before hand and asked two different advisers. They both said there was no limit. Lesson: Stay away from SNHU.
I'm so happy that you could avoid my mistake. I stuck with them because I thought that a BA in Creative Writing would be a good motivation for me to stick around and finish my degree. That was a huge, expensive mistake.
Why stay with or attend a school that is so deceptive? At that point reform, like I was trying to achieve, doesn't really go far enough. I would just advise everyone not to waste their time or money.
ETA: Thanks for the info on BYU IS. I don't mind if it is not a walk in the park, as long as I can get the credit I need.
Starting Almost Completely Over at TESC - sanantone - 06-05-2012
Most schools want all of your transcripts from all of your past schools. If their policy is a 3.0 on the last 60 credits with no minimum cumulative GPA, then they aren't going to care about what you got on the first 60 credits. They have that policy for a reason. Every school at which you received financial aid will show up on your financial aid record. I don't know how often schools put two and two together, but I wouldn't chance it. You would risk expulsion or the revocation of your degree if they find out after you graduate.
Starting Almost Completely Over at TESC - Jonathan Whatley - 06-05-2012
Tedium Wrote:I have already contacted both TESC and COSC with this idea and it turns out that TESC is most on board with this plan. They are also a bit cheaper and I feel like the major (as opposed to concentration) would better serve me when scouting out Grad. schools.
Big Charter Oak fan here, so I'm partial, but I really wouldn't worry in this context about the distinction between a "concentration" and "major."
• Charter Oak has no subject area "majors," so the concentration isn't junior in status, a counterpart to a minor or similar.
• Concentrations are at least 36 semester hours, with specific course and distribution requirements within the subject and typically with at least 15 semester hours upper-level. They're consistent in substance with "majors."
• Charter Oak openly describes them as "Concentrations (Majors);" see the page title here.
• Here's another New England college that formally describes its equivalents to majors, consistently, as "concentrations." Its graduates do okay!
Generally, too, remember that you aren't going to need to win admission to every MA or MFA program. Just one good one. Don't worry so much!
Starting Almost Completely Over at TESC - Tedium - 06-05-2012
sanantone: That seems to be what everyone else is saying. I need to just suck it up and do well on my last 60 and hope for the best. Get the heck out of undergrad and worry about the unknowns later.
Jonathan: I think you are absolutely right. I just need one good program. And actually, as I have spent some time these past few days e-mailing COSC and TESC it seems like COSC may be a better fit. The fact that I don't have to pay for a full year is kind of the deciding factor. That way if it takes longer than a year, I can pay by the semester. That's a really important consideration. Also, this:
Academic Forgiveness Policy
Upon entry, a matriculated student may elect to have only
certain transfer credit from previous institutions count
toward the Charter Oak degree. The student has one month
from receiving access to the advising worksheet to request
this option in writing to the Registrar. For example, the
student may elect to have courses removed to improve his/her
grade point average, or the student may want to exclude all
graduate level courses because he or she is applying those
toward a graduate degree. Once this decision is made, the
official academic grade record will be modified. Removal of
these credits is permanent.
That is from COSC. I can use that to take off some of my more useless credits (like underwater basket weaving
) and put in more useful credits.The reason why I said what I did about majors and concentrations is that one or two of the MFA programs I looked at specifically required you to be an English major. But like you said, I only need to get into one good one. My "concentration" in Literature may exclude me from one or two, but in the end I think it will really come down to GRE and my writing sample. Both of those are things I can control and need to be what I am focusing on right now.
I appreciate all you guys, all of the time. You always have such good advice and you know what to say when I am freaking out about stuff, which is usually always.
Starting Almost Completely Over at TESC - rebel100 - 06-05-2012
Another plug for COSC (though TESC and EC are great too). COSC customer service was just exemplary from start to finish, I highly recommend them.
COSC also has mechanisms in place that would only require the minimal courses actually at COSC (cornerstone and capstone). They will then allow an articulation agreement with just about any other school for you to get to that full time (12 credits) for the full F/A package. I did this between COSC and CSU-Pueblo. BYU wouldn't play ball and I had to choose another school.
COSC also records a letter grade for the older DSST exams and Straighterline courses....might be usefull to bump the GPA.
Starting Almost Completely Over at TESC - Tedium - 06-05-2012
rebel100 Wrote:Another plug for COSC (though TESC and EC are great too). COSC customer service was just exemplary from start to finish, I highly recommend them.
COSC also has mechanisms in place that would only require the minimal courses actually at COSC (cornerstone and capstone). They will then allow an articulation agreement with just about any other school for you to get to that full time (12 credits) for the full F/A package. I did this between COSC and CSU-Pueblo. BYU wouldn't play ball and I had to choose another school.
COSC also records a letter grade for the older DSST exams and Straighterline courses....might be usefull to bump the GPA.
Wow, that would be absolutely amazing since I will have to take so many IS and DL courses from other places. How does that work exactly? I'm assuming those courses are covered by financial aid. What about LSU DL courses? And I'm also guessing I would not need to be enrolled in those institutions, correct? Sorry for the bombardment of questions, but that could mean a huge difference in funding/length of my program. I guess I'll have another laundry list of questions for the poor people at COSC.
It's a shame about BYU. Maybe I will check again to make sure they didn't change their minds. They had a few UL English courses I was looking at.
Thank you so much for that, rebel. That is super helpful information.
Starting Almost Completely Over at TESC - rebel100 - 06-05-2012
You will have to matriculate at COSC then you will most likely be a "transient" student at the second institution. CSU Pueblo was perfect because they totally understood the process and to enroll in their courses you just called them up.
COSC did change their process a little...they will send you the money for your F/A and you will have to forward the payment to the second school...some schools may not like this as aid isn't cut until several weeks into the semester...so you might have to pay up front and be re-reimbursed. It just depends on the school you pick and how it shakes out.
I had to get CSU-Pueblo to state specific dates of attendance (to fit COSC's schedule) to get everything to fit...but they did that without a problem.
There is no reason that an LSU course won't work...except that it is a hassle for the schools and they simply may not be willing to play.
You could take 2 courses at COSC and get the discount for 2 courses at Western New Mexico. I'm in the MAIS program there and have really enjoyed my writing classes...they have UL English/Writing that you should be able to transfer back to COSC.
There are a lot of ways to do it...be flexible, ask questions, be polite...but don't take no for an answer.
What State are you in and how many credits do you have right now? Might make sense to go online in state to maximize your F/A. Have you looked at that?
Starting Almost Completely Over at TESC - rebel100 - 06-05-2012
CSU-Pueblo has a couple English Classes at the UL, the Capstone at COSC is 3 credits UL thats 9 hours UL. You might do a dual concentration English and something else...then they would likely let you get by with 18 credits (minimal) UL in the primary subject and the balance in another subject.
Colorado State University-Pueblo > English
CSU Pueblo has a lot of courses under the Sociology category...maybe you can find the balance of needed UL credits there. Colorado State University-Pueblo > Sociology You might look for writing intensive courses that wouldn't require any tests and you can make the case for inclusion in your degree plan...If you go with a liberal studies degree I am almost certain this would work.
Remember there are several UL DSST exams too.