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+--- Thread: flunked armed forces admission exam (/Thread-flunked-armed-forces-admission-exam)
flunked armed forces admission exam - cookderosa - 06-01-2011
My nephew just took the admissions exam for the Air Force. He did very very poorly. I understand he can take it again, and he will, but I don't expect him to ace this thing. I think on his best day he'll score a click under average. So, that said, what are his options?? I know Air Force is the hardest to get into anyway, but it's the only recruiter he has talked to at this point.
He has a high school diploma, he's 22. He doesn't have any college credit, he took a certificate program (non credit) for welding at our community college- he's good with his hands, not so good with the books. He just wants to enlist- somewhere. What should be his next step? His mom and I differ, she thinks he should just not bother since he'll never score high enough, I think he should know all his options before making that decision. Thanks!!!
flunked armed forces admission exam - irnbru - 06-01-2011
To be blunt, if your nephew is ready to give up after failing one test then he is not suitable for the armed forces.
If he has the option to retake the test after a cooling-off period, and he still wants to, then obviously this is what he should do. He has enough time to thoroughly research and prepare for the next test. This means finding out as much as possible as he can about testing and practicing testing. At the same time, he can look to expand his CV with a bit of charity work, some sports and some college credit; this way he is clearly able to demonstrate what he has done to improve his application prospects since his previous attempt.
Probably shouldn't concentrate too much on backup options, but if he is unable to answer the question 'what will you do if you are unsuccessful?' with 'enlist as a regular' there may be issues unless he is absolutely crystal clear in articulating why that should be the case. In the eventuality he is unsuccessful again, then finding out as much as possible about particular trades will help him understand what the lifestyle and jobs are actually like - it's what he'll be doing, rather than what he'll 'be'.
flunked armed forces admission exam - bkahuna - 06-01-2011
Are you talking about the ASFAB test?
flunked armed forces admission exam - grauwulf - 06-01-2011
cookderosa Wrote:My nephew just took the admissions exam for the Air Force. He did very very poorly. I understand he can take it again, and he will, but I don't expect him to ace this thing. I think on his best day he'll score a click under average. So, that said, what are his options?? I know Air Force is the hardest to get into anyway, but it's the only recruiter he has talked to at this point.
He has a high school diploma, he's 22. He doesn't have any college credit, he took a certificate program (non credit) for welding at our community college- he's good with his hands, not so good with the books. He just wants to enlist- somewhere. What should be his next step? His mom and I differ, she thinks he should just not bother since he'll never score high enough, I think he should know all his options before making that decision. Thanks!!!
I can program computers. I can fix my cars. I have put a roof on my house and rewired most of it. I usually do my own taxes, and I have a college education now.
I can't weld for $h!t. I've tried and tried, I even went out and bought my own mig setup. I have practiced and tried different things and so far all I've gotten is a heap of dis-tempered metal.
If what your nephew REALLY wants is to be military, send him to the Army. The Army is a good organization and it will train him up to be a productive worker bee. Navy See Bees is also an option, but again the tests are a bit rougher than the Army (or so I'm told).
There is, however, fantastic money to be made for a good welder outside of the military. Citizen welders build air craft carriers, war planes, sky scrapers, hospitals, and works of art. I see absolutely no shame in being a good welder, and he should be proud of it too.
Best of luck.
flunked armed forces admission exam - dcan - 06-01-2011
irnbru Wrote:To be blunt, if your nephew is ready to give up after failing one test then he is not suitable for the armed forces.
I strongly disagree with this statement. I was a screwup in several ways in my younger days. Thankfully I had good people looking out for me, guiding me along with the occasional kick in the rear. I'm now a few years shy of retirement. Never underestimate what someone is capable of -- it may only be a temporary attitude issue (i.e. depressed from performance less than he hoped). We've all been there. (not saying your nephew is a screwup, just commenting on not stereotyping someone)
If this is the ASVAB, which it sounds like, he needs to lose the stigma that he "failed" somehow. There is no failure, it simply means he did not meet the minimum cutoff score for acceptance into one of the four main branches of service. Nothing more, nothing less, and certainly not something dishonorable. Like the other poster said, welding is hard. I can program, and I don't even change my own oil.
If he is close, I would recommend he look into the Navy over Army. He would get far more technical training that route. I'm personally biased for Air Force, and can speak to the high standard of living compared to other services, but the Navy and the Air Force are very similar in mindset, for example llistening to junior personnel with new ideas. I've worked very closely with the Army and respect what they do, but they treat their people pretty roughly in a lot of ways. Then again, they have a much rougher job...
His options in a nutshell:
1. Study and retake the ASVAB and try to get into the Air Force. There are ASVAB study guides out there you can buy for this.
2. Talk to other recruiters and try to join another service. He should talk to all of them to get the most information he can before he makes such a major decision anyway.
3. Pursue a civilian career.
I encourage him to press forward in his life with his own decision. His life is his, not his mother's nor anyone else's.
PS if he doesn't like a recruiter, just find another one for the same branch, in the same or a different office. If they try to send him back to the original, he can tell them no. Trust me, even though they deny it, they have quotas, based on all sorts of criteria: job, gender, race, ethnicity, etc. I worked w/ recruiters and it is highly competitive, a great place for a salesman who wants to advance in rank by pulling in more recruits. They will be happy to get credit (or share credit, depending on the rules) for recruiting him.
Good luck! :patriot:
flunked armed forces admission exam - cookderosa - 06-01-2011
irnbru Wrote:To be blunt, if your nephew is ready to give up after failing one test then he is not suitable for the armed forces.
If he has the option to retake the test after a cooling-off period, and he still wants to, then obviously this is what he should do. He has enough time to thoroughly research and prepare for the next test. This means finding out as much as possible as he can about testing and practicing testing. At the same time, he can look to expand his CV with a bit of charity work, some sports and some college credit; this way he is clearly able to demonstrate what he has done to improve his application prospects since his previous attempt.
Probably shouldn't concentrate too much on backup options, but if he is unable to answer the question 'what will you do if you are unsuccessful?' with 'enlist as a regular' there may be issues unless he is absolutely crystal clear in articulating why that should be the case. In the eventuality he is unsuccessful again, then finding out as much as possible about particular trades will help him understand what the lifestyle and jobs are actually like - it's what he'll be doing, rather than what he'll 'be'.
I'm so confused by your post, I don't even know what to ask. He has to do charity work to enlist? And what is enlisting as regular? Why wouldn't he be regular???
flunked armed forces admission exam - cookderosa - 06-01-2011
bkahuna Wrote:Are you talking about the ASFAB test?
I couldn't say for sure. It's whatever test they give to every person that helps them determine what jobs they would be suited for. This was technically a pre-test. He had to score a certain number in order t be sent to a nearby city for his "real" test but his score was too low so they told him he couldn't take the exam until he scored higher on his pre-test. This was the Air Force. He's feeling like a failure. He does have the prep material (web not book) and also used my ALEKS account for his math review. He studied hard (shhhh I checked the account to see if he was completing topics lol, he was!) but it wasn't enough.
flunked armed forces admission exam - cookderosa - 06-01-2011
dcan Wrote:If this is the ASVAB, which it sounds like, he needs to lose the stigma that he "failed" somehow. There is no failure, it simply means he did not meet the minimum cutoff score for acceptance into one of the four main branches of service. Nothing more, nothing less, and certainly not something dishonorable. Like the other poster said, welding is hard. I can program, and I don't even change my own oil.
If he is close, I would recommend he look into the Navy over Army. He would get far more technical training that route. I'm personally biased for Air Force, and can speak to the high standard of living compared to other services, but the Navy and the Air Force are very similar in mindset, for example listening to junior personnel with new ideas. I've worked very closely with the Army and respect what they do, but they treat their people pretty roughly in a lot of ways. Then again, they have a much rougher job...
His options in a nutshell:
1. Study and retake the ASVAB and try to get into the Air Force. There are ASVAB study guides out there you can buy for this.
2. Talk to other recruiters and try to join another service. He should talk to all of them to get the most information he can before he makes such a major decision anyway.
3. Pursue a civilian career.
I encourage him to press forward in his life with his own decision. His life is his, not his mother's nor anyone else's.
PS if he doesn't like a recruiter, just find another one for the same branch, in the same or a different office. If they try to send him back to the original, he can tell them no. Trust me, even though they deny it, they have quotas, based on all sorts of criteria: job, gender, race, ethnicity, etc. I worked w/ recruiters and it is highly competitive, a great place for a salesman who wants to advance in rank by pulling in more recruits. They will be happy to get credit (or share credit, depending on the rules) for recruiting him.
Good luck! :patriot:
Thank you. That sounds like the test he took. He absolutely feels like a failure. The reason I bring his mom into it was because I'm the one who encourages him, he discourages him, so for him to score poorly gave her some fuel and that didn't help. He called me to day for advice, so, in order for me to help him, I need to be able to make suggestions, and this is why I posted here. I don't understand the process or the branches, so I'm blind in all of this.
FWIW, he isn't a screw-up, he's a good kid. He's a decent worker. He had a head injury when he was 2 that (probably) has contributed to some of his learning issues, but once he has done something a couple times he's absolutely competent.
The way he explained his situation to me today, was that it wasn't even a matter of him "choosing" a branch, he told me today that he wasn't able to get in anywhere. Like I said, I don't understand the admission process, so I couldn't discern if he was right or confused or exaggerating or plain wrong.
flunked armed forces admission exam - CLEP101 - 06-02-2011
cookderosa Wrote:I know Air Force is the hardest to get into anyway, but it's the only recruiter he has talked to at this point.
Actually the AirForce is not the hardest one to get into, it is the same exam for every branch, the Armed Forces Vocational Aptitude Battery Test (ASVAB). If you pass it for one, then you pass it for all. However, depending on how low or high he scores on the test, then that will determine what job he can choose. Minimum score to pass it is a 31, highest is 99.
Depending on recruiting goals and time of the year, they might only take people that score 50 or above with HS Diploma, depending on criminal and medical background checks. When I was a recruiter, statistically 70% of the recruits I would talk to either had a POM charge (Possession of Marijuana) or DWI charge. I'm guessing he is in the other 30%.
When I was a recruiter, two resources that I can think of right now that we used to use was the petersons ASVAB practice exams (same place we go to for the CLEPS/DSST except look to the right for ASVAB)
The other site is http://www.march2success.com
It's been a while so I don't remember much about the second site.
The ASVAB has about 9 or 10 subjects. He needs to concentrate on only 4 of them. 1. Paragraph Comprehension, 2. Arithmetic Reasoning, 3. Word Knowledge, 4. Mathematics Knowledge. Everything else just lets him know what his is good at doing. Those four sections are the ones that actually affect your score. So tell him to concentrate on those four subject areas.
He can retest two more times with 30 days in between. After that it will be 6 months wait.
Hope this helps, :patriot:
flunked armed forces admission exam - scorched - 06-02-2011
Agree with Clep101 on most things.
The test is the same but the minimum qualifications for entrance to each branch is actually different, so technically it can be tougher to get into the air force than the army. But it changes periodically, as was mentioned, based upon recruitment requirements and it also depends on having a HS diploma vs GED.. A GED +15 college credits equals a HS diploma in the eyes of the air force. Plus there are ways to get waivers on many issues, such as low qual scores.
Latest info I could find:
Air Force requires a 36 with HS Diploma or a 65 with GED (rumor but recruiting for AF says minimum is currently 50)
navy requires a 35 or 50 with GED
army & air national guard require the minimum passing of 31 or 50 w/GED
marines are 32 & 50
coast guard is 40 & 50
Minimum ASVAB Scores and Education Levels Required for Enlistment in the U.S. Military
Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The subsection scores are what will determine what specialty "job" your son will have. There are 4 sections for the air force, General Aptitude, Mechanical Apt, Electronic Apt, and Administrative.
Here are some rough ideas on what scores will get you what jobs for the air force.
ASVAB and Air Force Jobs
clep101 Wrote:Actually the AirForce is not the hardest one to get into, it is the same exam for every branch, the Armed Forces Vocational Aptitude Battery Test (ASVAB). If you pass it for one, then you pass it for all.