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Obama's plans for College Tuition - creationstory - 01-19-2009
Professor_Adam Wrote:Well that's interesting, if true, because it would mean that people will yield their own personal values (no matter how dear) in order to appease their minority group. For instance, my black friends who voted for Obama do not support gay marriage or a repeal of the "don't ask don't tell policy." -- Yes, I asked them. They also don't identify with Obama's life in any way other than -- literally -- his status as being half black, and yet they support him as if he did. To me this kind of behavior is worthy of further study and research.
And I have to object to your idea that they will center on a leader who looks like them. This is not true. The black community does not support Condoleeza Rice and their feelings on Clarence Thomas and Gen. Colin Powell are somewhat mixed. It seems that if a black person is seen as supportive of conservative or Republican ideals (a la Bill Cosby, Thomas Sowell), they are immediately dismissed as being respresentative of their race. Why is this so? And put another way, how come only liberal blacks need apply for leadership roles in that culture?
condoleeza rice is deemed to be a "sell out." clarence thomas too.. as he married a white woman. gen powell is a funny situation in that he grew up in the south bronx and went to ccny in harlem. his success seems out of each to most blacks americans who are vocal. middle class blacks tend not to be as vocal as the lower class. liberal blacks apply for leadership roles b/c liberals were typically the ones that helped blacks in the past. Lincoln, FDR, JFK, etc.
Obama's plans for College Tuition - Professor_Adam - 01-19-2009
Lincoln was a Republican who was not so much for blacks as he was for keeping the union together.
I fail to see what FDR or JFK did for black people.
I will give credit to LBJ however.
And, by liberals helping blacks I'm not sure how we define that. In what way? Increasing welfare? Promoting reverse racism through Affirmative Action policies, thereby INCREASING resentment and racism from whites? I'm not sure the blacks have been served well by either party to be quite frank.
Obama's plans for College Tuition - Professor_Adam - 01-19-2009
Regardless,
What accounts for the severe disparity in cultural goals in our country? How can we ensure minorities and the "economically challenged" have equal opportunities to attend college despite the cost of tuition?
If "diversity scholarships" aren't the answer (they harbor quite a bit of resentment among whites) then what is the answer? Should all tuition simply be "needs" based, regardless of race? What if this caused enrollment for minorities to drop precipitously? Then how do we answer that?
Obama's plans for College Tuition - Gary - 01-19-2009
I just put the car in reverse for a moment........there. First, creationstory, thanks for the hug Bro! Now Farmerboy, I respect people who believe the Messiah will come again. What I find hard to believe is how blinded by religion people have become. You stated individuals and churches should be the ones to lend a helping hand ON THEIR OWN INITIATIVE. Sounds like "trickle down theory" to me. You know, the trust us speech. You think African Americans should fall for that. Not only that, not to disrespect religion (their leaders have done a fine job themselves), but how can you really expect the populace to trust an organization that has had rampant, that is correct, rampant, sexual abuse going on for decades and they chose to hide it rather than tackle it head on. No Thanks, I don't want the church issuing me allowance. I don't mean to poke fun at you either but do they have...........black people in Idaho? I don't think you are racist, just confused/misinformed. While I can agree with you there are definitely problems in the inner cities and the problems you mentioned do exist, why do they exist? They have not been given fair treatment................please, quiet down, quiet down. For a few moments, try to put yourself in their shoes. Just going to work or school is a threat. They DO NOT in many cases have the same opportunity as whites. I'm sure this will rile some, so be it, the truth hurts. In Philadelphia, many African Americans were wrongly arrested and imprisoned and this happened numerous times. Some were disowned by their own families thinking their kids/relatives were guilty. It was found out later that the police admitted wrongdoing in arresting them and the city paid a huge settlement. This isn't about the money, it's about respecting humans. There is a disrespect going on to a class of citizens that isn't being acknowledged. We search for bogus answers but it's simple. We are protective of our jobs, our cultures, our way of life as we are accustomed to. That for one dictates how many will treat others. You want to say drug dealing is a way of life in the inner city, that might be right but as I said in a previous post, if it wasn't for people outside the city buying drugs, in many cases, "professional types", maybe there wouldn't be the market that there is. We help perpetuate it. Honestly, if you listened to yourself, you'd see how warped your ideas are. I don't have a problem with your religion, it's the baggage. You can call me Democrat (which I'm not), liberal (which I am to a point) or any bunch of names but bigot and racist, No Way!
Obama's plans for College Tuition - Farmerboy - 01-19-2009
Notice I said SHOULD! That hasn't happened! I think that right now in this country we have the most freedom of any nation anywhere at anytime and I also think that it is all downhill from here. You can't get a better opportunity than to live in this country.
Gary, I am just curious, where do you gain your political views from? I am genuinely wondering if there is something you would refer to as your foundation or if it is just your own philosophy that you have come up with through your experience.
Obama's plans for College Tuition - Farmerboy - 01-19-2009
I would also like to clarify, I am NOT a Roman Catholic! I am a dyed in the wool Protestant. When I refered to the church I was talking about christianity as a whole.
Obama's plans for College Tuition - peace123 - 01-19-2009
I am going to add my 2 cents to this discussion.
As chance would have it I was lucky enough to be studying the civil war prior to the elections. This was an eye opening experience to me and I feel it gave me a better understanding of our history.
Additionally I noticed ( this may just be my own warped view) a similarity in divisions during our current time and during the civil war times.
During the civil war times there was a great divide between those who were fighting for states rights and those who were fighting to protect the union.
This divide was based on both social, cultural and economic differences , with both sides trying to protect their cultures and values.
During the current election I saw the divide that is currently in our country, it seems in my opinion to be about those who are ruled by Evangelical Christian values and those who are not ruled by them. Again this could just be my odd take on things but I really feel this was dividing the country in two. And like in the past these differences are based on social, cultural and economic differences as well as religious.
Since this forum is just a small slice of the larger pie called America, I am not surprised to see these differences displayed here.
I also have to wonder if this divide is eventually going to grow into another "civil war" or if we are going to find a way to live together peacefully.
Peace123
Obama's plans for College Tuition - Farmerboy - 01-19-2009
peace123 Wrote:I am going to add my 2 cents to this discussion.
As chance would have it I was lucky enough to be studying the civil war prior to the elections. This was an eye opening experience to me and I feel it gave me a better understanding of our history.
Additionally I noticed ( this may just be my own warped view) a similarity in divisions during our current time and during the civil war times.
During the civil war times there was a great divide between those who were fighting for states rights and those who were fighting to protect the union.
This divide was based on both social, cultural and economic differences , with both sides trying to protect their cultures and values.
During the current election I saw the divide that is currently in our country, it seems in my opinion to be about those who are ruled by Evangelical Christian values and those who are not ruled by them. Again this could just be my odd take on things but I really feel this was dividing the country in two. And like in the past these differences are based on social, cultural and economic differences.
Since this forum is just a small slice of the larger pie called America, I am not surprised to see these differences displayed here.
I also have to wonder if this divide is eventually going to grow into another "civil war" or if we are going to find a way to live together peacefully.
Peace123
I think that the union is on very shaky ground right now and I concur with your observations. The main difference between pre civil war and right now is the issue of slavery. I think the issue of upholding the Constitution could be the one to rip us apart. The links below will take you to the constitutional convention issue with the second link the actual bill that was introduced last month in Ohio.
Chuck Baldwin -- Virginia State Takes Con Con Stage.
S. J. R. No. 9**As Introduced
Obama's plans for College Tuition - peace123 - 01-19-2009
Farmerboy,
Thanks for those links, I had no idea they were trying for a Constitutional Convention.
The Ohio link indicates ( to me) they are doing this as it would force the Fed Gov. to inact balanced budgets- is that correct ?
I suppose that is not a bad thing, but I wonder what other rights we might lose in exchange.
Pretty scary stuff..and only 2 states away from achieving their goal.
Peace123
Obama's plans for College Tuition - Farmerboy - 01-19-2009
The really scary part is that there is no guidelines as to what they can or can't do or how many representatives and from where.