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Older students and the liberal arts - MA2 - 04-25-2011
alleycat Wrote:Here is the defination of the word liberal that I have found. Being liberal is not just about a persons political beliefs.
lib·er·al (lĭbˈər-əl, lĭbˈrəl)
adjective
1.a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
2.a. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
b. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
3.Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
4.Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.
5.a. Archaic Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
b. Obsolete Morally unrestrained; licentious.
Obviously being liberal is not just about political beliefs. But in a conversation about politics I think it's quite obvious which definition being used.
If talking about "gay rights" I don't think it needs to be spelled out that we are talking about homosexuals and not "happy people."
Older students and the liberal arts - OE800_85 - 04-25-2011
ryoder Wrote:I see how frustrated liberals get when they hear different opinions. They tend to seek out "like minded" individuals as friends and get mad when a conservative talks about individual responsibility or government cutbacks to pay down the fourteen trillion dollar debt.
Observation bias. Most people who disagree with others get mad and seek out others with the same beliefs, that's on both the side of conservatives and liberals, bullshit.
Older students and the liberal arts - OE800_85 - 04-25-2011
My general point is, in a socialist culture if you work hard, you are still rewarded. People who are great at their job get promoted, people who aren't either get a dead end job, quit, or get fired. There's no difference between that in Denmark (with the highest income tax in the world) and the US. Incentive still exists, you can still buy luxury cars, get a big house, the whole american dream.
Socialism exists because quite often, the plight of the poor is not related to their hard work. I wonder if there's anyone on this entire forum who came from the lower class (and let's not pretend, the REAL lower class) and made something of themselves. It happens, but it's extremely rare. If this person does exist, ask them how many of their peers from those days made it too, I guess it'll be close to zero. The situation people face often doesn't allow them to come up. An extremely select few attain their goals, and the rest suffer because of the system. The vast majority of them can't do anything about their situation. Did you know that 1 in 4 american children grow up in poverty? Did you know that most of these people won't graduate highschool? How come America's the only developed nation seriously suffering from this problem? Is it coincidence that Americans are just "lazier" than the rest of the developed world?
Do you think people in every western nation besides america are communists, because according to your Lenin quote, that's what should have happened over time. It clearly hasn't.
Older students and the liberal arts - grauwulf - 04-25-2011
MA2 Wrote:[...]
It's funny, but at the moment I can't think of anything that embodies the ideals of socialism or communism more than enforcing the 'common usage' or 'the peoples will' on those expressing ideals of independence. Oh wait, have the people decided there are new definitions for those words too? We certainly wouldn't want to offend "the people's will", now would we comrade? :-P
As a small point of advice; it seems that it would be far easier to troll a board when you only act out of anger. You started off pretty well by trying to bully people out of your argument, comparing them to Hitler (very original by the way, right out of Chairman Beck's little red book), but then you tried to justify your position and it all kind of went down hill.
Ryoder shares your views but makes a case for it by saying that 'this is what I think' as opposed to 'this is what everybody should think'. This is how reasonable and rational people approach an argument. Informed opinions, even if I disagree with them, are very different from doctrines. I appreciate ideas that challenge my own because they present the opportunity for me to grow. Imposing ideas on somebody else does not help them grow or enlighten them, it oppresses them.
Sadly, I've already offered far too much time to this thread. We snobs DO have other matters to attend to. :-D
Cherio!
Older students and the liberal arts - MA2 - 04-25-2011
grauwulf Wrote:It's funny, but at the moment I can't think of anything that embodies the ideals of socialism or communism more than enforcing the 'common usage' or 'the peoples will' on those expressing ideals of independence.
Ahhh yes, me pointing out that we were in fact using the word "liberal" in the right way is socialist. Makes sense.
I didn't realize I had to pretext every comment I wrote with "this is what I think." I kind of thought that was a given. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. Because I disagree with them, somehow I'm anti-first amendment. ???
You are upset because you wanted to seem more intelligent than everyone by pointing us using the "incorrect" words... even though the dictionary clearly says otherwise.
Older students and the liberal arts - MA2 - 04-25-2011
OE800_85 Wrote:Observation bias. Most people who disagree with others get mad and seek out others with the same beliefs, that's on both the side of conservatives and liberals, bullshit.
Yes, it is true on both sides, proving Ryoder's point: that "liberals" aren't that "open minded."
Older students and the liberal arts - ShotoJuku - 04-25-2011
[COLOR="Navy"]Thanks for all of the heads up PM's everyone!
The bad kid has been kicked out of the sandbox so now eveyone else may continue to play nicely and enjoy a civil discussion. When you start to quote Adolf Hitler to justify your position, somethings got to give, and it did.[/COLOR]
eeya:
Older students and the liberal arts - PonyGirl93 - 04-25-2011
ShotoJuku Wrote:[COLOR="Navy"]Thanks for all of the heads up PM's everyone!The Hitler quote was smart... What came after, not so much
The bad kid has been kicked out of the sandbox so now eveyone else may continue to play nicely and enjoy a civil discussion. When you start to quote Adolf Hitler to justify your position, somethings got to give, and it did.[/COLOR]
