(05-14-2024, 06:29 PM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote: Not for the first time, ChatGPT is blustering confidently while answering not the question asked but an unhelpfully different question no one asked.

(05-14-2024, 06:29 PM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote: Not for the first time, ChatGPT is blustering confidently while answering not the question asked but an unhelpfully different question no one asked.

(05-14-2024, 06:41 PM)LevelUP Wrote:

(05-14-2024, 06:29 PM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote: Not for the first time, ChatGPT is blustering confidently while answering not the question asked but an unhelpfully different question no one asked.

I am currently writing a piece on the limitations of ChatGPT.

For now, CIP codes are important enough of an issue to keep this thread pinned.

(05-14-2024, 06:45 PM)sanantone Wrote:

(05-14-2024, 06:41 PM)LevelUP Wrote:

(05-14-2024, 06:29 PM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote: Not for the first time, ChatGPT is blustering confidently while answering not the question asked but an unhelpfully different question no one asked.

I am currently writing a piece on the limitations of ChatGPT.

For now, CIP codes are important enough of an issue to keep this thread pinned.

At least people will see that part of the post was misinformed. It's okay. No one is right 100% of the time. It's only a problem when people double down on their errors.

(05-14-2024, 03:03 PM)sanantone Wrote: Ares, we're still waiting for evidence to support the OP's anecdote that you believed without question.

(05-14-2024, 06:01 PM)sanantone Wrote:

(05-14-2024, 04:49 PM)LevelUP Wrote:

(05-09-2024, 03:35 PM)sanantone Wrote: It's been almost a year, and no one has responded to you with any evidence for this claim. They haven't responded to you at all.

From ChatGPT

Yes, there are non-Department of Defense (DoD) federal jobs where the degree must match specific Classification of Instructional Programs (CIP) codes. This requirement is often seen in specialized fields that require specific educational backgrounds. Here are a few examples:

1. GS-1320 - Chemist
Required Degree: A degree in physical sciences, life sciences, or engineering that includes 30 semester hours in chemistry, supplemented by coursework in mathematics and physics.

CIP Code Requirement: The degree typically needs to be classified under a CIP code related to Chemistry (40.05 series).

2. GS-0810 - Civil Engineer
Required Degree: A professional engineering degree, usually requiring an ABET-accredited program.

CIP Code Requirement: Degrees in Civil Engineering are classified under the CIP code 14.0801. To qualify for a Civil Engineer position, the degree must match this CIP code.

3. GS-0401 - General Natural Resources Management and Biological Sciences
Required Degree: Degrees in biological sciences, agriculture, natural resource management, chemistry, or related disciplines appropriate to the position.

CIP Code Requirement: This series often requires a degree with a CIP code in the 26.xx series (Biological and Biomedical Sciences).

4. GS-1515 - Operations Research Analyst
Required Degree: A degree in operations research or a closely related field that includes at least 24 semester hours in a combination of operations research, mathematics, probability, statistics, mathematical logic, science, or related courses.

CIP Code Requirement: Degrees in Operations Research are classified under the CIP code 14.3701.

Example Job Posting:
Here’s an example from a job listing on USAJOBS that illustrates the degree and CIP code requirement:

Position: Operations Research Analyst (GS-1515)
Qualifications: Requires a bachelor's degree in operations research or a closely related field that includes at least 24 semester hours in operations research, mathematics, probability, statistics, mathematical logic, science, or related subjects.

CIP Code Requirement: The degree must be classified under a CIP code related to Operations Research, such as 14.3701.

While not all federal jobs require a degree that matches a specific CIP code, those in highly specialized fields often do. The CIP code ensures that the degree program provided the necessary specialized education and training relevant to the job. This requirement helps maintain standards and ensure that applicants are adequately prepared for the technical and specialized nature of these roles.

If you were my student, I would give you a zero. Please have ChatGPT produce a source, and the source must exist.

(05-14-2024, 06:45 PM)sanantone Wrote:

(05-14-2024, 06:41 PM)LevelUP Wrote:

(05-14-2024, 06:29 PM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote: Not for the first time, ChatGPT is blustering confidently while answering not the question asked but an unhelpfully different question no one asked.

I am currently writing a piece on the limitations of ChatGPT.

For now, CIP codes are important enough of an issue to keep this thread pinned.

At least people will see that part of the post was misinformed. It's okay. No one is right 100% of the time. It's only a problem when people double down on their errors.

1. The OP's thread is valid in that some points are true, and using a strawman to show that some points are not true doesn't invalidate the entire argument.
   
   
2. Anecdotal evidence and/or appeal to authority are invalid arguments.
   

1. While it's possible to misclassify a degree, that usually can be resolved by HR specialists.
   
   
2. Courses equivalent to a major field of study can make a degree qualify for a job. 
   

(05-15-2024, 12:41 PM)Ares Wrote:

(05-14-2024, 03:03 PM)sanantone Wrote: Ares, we're still waiting for evidence to support the OP's anecdote that you believed without question.

Please quote where I said anything such thing. You seem to have reading comprehension problems which is strange because you list that you have four degrees.

---

(05-14-2024, 06:01 PM)sanantone Wrote:

(05-14-2024, 04:49 PM)LevelUP Wrote:

(05-09-2024, 03:35 PM)sanantone Wrote: It's been almost a year, and no one has responded to you with any evidence for this claim. They haven't responded to you at all.

From ChatGPT

Yes, there are non-Department of Defense (DoD) federal jobs where the degree must match specific Classification of Instructional Programs (CIP) codes. This requirement is often seen in specialized fields that require specific educational backgrounds. Here are a few examples:

1. GS-1320 - Chemist
Required Degree: A degree in physical sciences, life sciences, or engineering that includes 30 semester hours in chemistry, supplemented by coursework in mathematics and physics.

CIP Code Requirement: The degree typically needs to be classified under a CIP code related to Chemistry (40.05 series).

2. GS-0810 - Civil Engineer
Required Degree: A professional engineering degree, usually requiring an ABET-accredited program.

CIP Code Requirement: Degrees in Civil Engineering are classified under the CIP code 14.0801. To qualify for a Civil Engineer position, the degree must match this CIP code.

3. GS-0401 - General Natural Resources Management and Biological Sciences
Required Degree: Degrees in biological sciences, agriculture, natural resource management, chemistry, or related disciplines appropriate to the position.

CIP Code Requirement: This series often requires a degree with a CIP code in the 26.xx series (Biological and Biomedical Sciences).

4. GS-1515 - Operations Research Analyst
Required Degree: A degree in operations research or a closely related field that includes at least 24 semester hours in a combination of operations research, mathematics, probability, statistics, mathematical logic, science, or related courses.

CIP Code Requirement: Degrees in Operations Research are classified under the CIP code 14.3701.

Example Job Posting:
Here’s an example from a job listing on USAJOBS that illustrates the degree and CIP code requirement:

Position: Operations Research Analyst (GS-1515)
Qualifications: Requires a bachelor's degree in operations research or a closely related field that includes at least 24 semester hours in operations research, mathematics, probability, statistics, mathematical logic, science, or related subjects.

CIP Code Requirement: The degree must be classified under a CIP code related to Operations Research, such as 14.3701.

While not all federal jobs require a degree that matches a specific CIP code, those in highly specialized fields often do. The CIP code ensures that the degree program provided the necessary specialized education and training relevant to the job. This requirement helps maintain standards and ensure that applicants are adequately prepared for the technical and specialized nature of these roles.

If you were my student, I would give you a zero. Please have ChatGPT produce a source, and the source must exist.

You would have already failed my class by pretending that your anecdotes were facts.

---

(05-14-2024, 06:45 PM)sanantone Wrote:

(05-14-2024, 06:41 PM)LevelUP Wrote:

(05-14-2024, 06:29 PM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote: Not for the first time, ChatGPT is blustering confidently while answering not the question asked but an unhelpfully different question no one asked.

I am currently writing a piece on the limitations of ChatGPT.

For now, CIP codes are important enough of an issue to keep this thread pinned.

At least people will see that part of the post was misinformed. It's okay. No one is right 100% of the time. It's only a problem when people double down on their errors.

LMAO, you mean like when you kept repeating your anecdotes and then changed the subject to a strawman argument?

(05-15-2024, 01:18 PM)LevelUP Wrote: Ares' points are:

1. The OP's thread is valid in that some points are true, and using a strawman to show that some points are not true doesn't invalidate the entire argument.
   
   
2. Anecdotal evidence and/or appeal to authority are invalid arguments.
   

Sanantone's points are:

1. While it's possible to misclassify a degree, that usually can be resolved by HR specialists.
   
   
2. Courses equivalent to a major field of study can make a degree qualify for a job. 
   

Here is an example of qualification standards for Data Science, which the OP was concerned about:

Data Science Series 1560.

We could do without all the condescending comments.

By the way, if I were a professor, I would give everyone, including myself, a ZERO for commenting on a thread that is 8 months old.

(05-15-2024, 01:38 PM)sanantone Wrote: I have seven college degrees, including a doctorate. I think the reading comprehension issues are on your end. The subject was not changed.

(05-15-2024, 01:38 PM)sanantone Wrote: Looking at thousands of job ads over the period of many years is called sampling. It doesn't seem like too many here have looked at many USAJob announcements, so they're running with assumptions and what they want to believe. If they had looked at the job ads, they would be aware of OPM and the 24-credit requirement. Because I have looked at thousands of job ads, I was aware of something that you and others were not. You didn't even know where to go to find the answer. I found it for you. You're welcome.

(05-15-2024, 01:38 PM)sanantone Wrote: I don't know why anecdotes bother you so much when they were supported by an official government policy. You're arguing just to argue and because you're embarrassed.

(05-16-2024, 04:40 AM)Ares Wrote:

(05-15-2024, 01:38 PM)sanantone Wrote: I have seven college degrees, including a doctorate. I think the reading comprehension issues are on your end. The subject was not changed.

That makes your reading comprehension problems even more embarrassing. You are correct on one thing, I am certainly bad at reading poorly formatted signatures like yours. You changed the subject away from your meaningless anecdotes.

(05-15-2024, 01:38 PM)sanantone Wrote: Looking at thousands of job ads over the period of many years is called sampling. It doesn't seem like too many here have looked at many USAJob announcements, so they're running with assumptions and what they want to believe. If they had looked at the job ads, they would be aware of OPM and the 24-credit requirement. Because I have looked at thousands of job ads, I was aware of something that you and others were not. You didn't even know where to go to find the answer. I found it for you. You're welcome.

ROFLMAO, you are not "sampling" job ads give me a break. USAJobs does not include the job requirements for every federal job nor does it include the internal procedures used by the hiring managers for any of those jobs.

(05-15-2024, 01:38 PM)sanantone Wrote: I don't know why anecdotes bother you so much when they were supported by an official government policy. You're arguing just to argue and because you're embarrassed.

No I am pointing out that your anecdotes are not facts. I suspect you are embarrassed that TESU does such a shoddy job with their CIP codes, regardless I think this thread is valuable for this reason alone.

I noticed you failed to quote anything I stated.