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+--- Thread: New from Harvard Extension School (/Thread-New-from-Harvard-Extension-School)
RE: New from Harvard Extension School - Jonathan Whatley - 06-15-2019
(06-15-2019, 05:20 PM)sanantone Wrote: TESU is not a part of Rutgers. Rutgers doesn't have a guide telling you to put "Rutgers University, Thomas Edison Extension" on your resume.
They're both part of the New Jersey public university and college system. Chris Christie's 2010 budget proposal initially called for TESC to merge into Rutgers. One theme of the pushback that rose up immediately was that systems and processes that work for Rutgers programs and Rutgers students often wouldn't work well for TESC programs and TESC students. Rutgers students are principally B&M, and 88% of Rutgers–New Brunswick undergrad students are under age 30.
Well, maybe a package of autonomy and differentiation can also work out best for the nontraditional division within one university.
Harvard College is exclusive to early bloomers. The average student is 20 years old. Less than 1% are part-time. 98% live on campus where meals, cleaning, and maintenance are provided and all sorts of supports are steps away. A student with more than two years of college elsewhere is ineligible to transfer in to the College. The experience College students have in the world is almost always impressive, sometimes stellar… for their age. It's still inherently limited. There's more diversity of age and experience in the graduate schools. There's radically more in HES. It should be administered differently.
RE: New from Harvard Extension School - sanantone - 06-15-2019
(06-15-2019, 09:05 PM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote:(06-15-2019, 05:20 PM)sanantone Wrote: TESU is not a part of Rutgers. Rutgers doesn't have a guide telling you to put "Rutgers University, Thomas Edison Extension" on your resume.
They're both part of the New Jersey public university and college system. Chris Christie's 2010 budget proposal initially called for TESC to merge into Rutgers. One theme of the pushback that rose up immediately was that systems and processes that work for Rutgers programs and Rutgers students often wouldn't work well for TESC programs and TESC students. Rutgers students are principally B&M, and 88% of Rutgers–New Brunswick undergrad students are under age 30.
Well, maybe a package of autonomy and differentiation can also work out best for the nontraditional division within one university.
Harvard College is exclusive to early bloomers. The average student is 20 years old. Less than 1% are part-time. 98% live on campus where meals, cleaning, and maintenance are provided and all sorts of supports are steps away. A student with more than two years of college elsewhere is ineligible to transfer in to the College. The experience College students have in the world is almost always impressive, sometimes stellar… for their age. It's still inherently limited. There's more diversity of age and experience in the graduate schools. There's radically more in HES. It should be administered differently.
The merger did not go through, so TESU and Rutgers are still and always have been two separate institutions independently funded and accredited. TESU's budget does not come from Rutgers' budget. Harvard University is one university. Rutgers has its own online programs, and they don't make their online students wear a scarlet letter.
RE: New from Harvard Extension School - Jonathan Whatley - 06-15-2019
(06-15-2019, 09:27 PM)sanantone Wrote: they don't make their online students wear a scarlet letter.
Pretty sure Harvard Extension School, Bachelor of Liberal Arts, and Master of Liberal Arts aren't scarlet letters.
RE: New from Harvard Extension School - sanantone - 06-16-2019
(06-15-2019, 09:54 PM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote:(06-15-2019, 09:27 PM)sanantone Wrote: they don't make their online students wear a scarlet letter.
Pretty sure Harvard Extension School, Bachelor of Liberal Arts, and Master of Liberal Arts aren't scarlet letters.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on that. I wouldn't want to complete a major and have to advertise a general studies degree with a concentration.
RE: New from Harvard Extension School - posabsolute - 06-16-2019
Damn, I'm bitting..
The issue with HES, I feel, comes from its mission, which is to make Harvard education accessible. None of the other school is open admission, and generally, other ivy's online programs are competitive admission. Even Harvard agree's to an extent that it is different. The diploma, the transcripts, will read master of liberal art in extension studies.
Now you can counter with many arguments, HES has been very good a spreading that and that is fine. But it is what it is, this debate will continue on, and until HES does major changes their alumni's will still be sometimes discriminated.
RE: New from Harvard Extension School - armstrongsubero - 06-16-2019
I think it just burns some people that the Ivory Tower, Ivy League Harvard whose existence we must all quiver at, whose students are the children of the mytical Greek Gods allows simple ordinary mortals to attend.
It's just a bloody school.
Some guy out there makes 500 million a year and his son goes to Harvard, I may be just as smart or smater thean him and cant go why? Because of money? Because I dont have connection? Because I wasn't born in the US?
Its education at it's finest. Prove you are worthy to study there and hey, welcome to the family.
That is the basis of the HES. President Lowell had more vision than any people bashing the school can fathom, and the people talking down about the school can't walk in this man's shoe.
The guy has more accomplishemnts to his name than many of us ever hope to achieve in his lifetime. When you did as much as he did, then you can bash his vision. An American hero whom you all should be proud that he had such vision. I salute you sir.
When you bash the HES, you bash the vision of your forefathers. I may not be an American, but in my country we call that being the Hindi word 'neemakaram' , and is dishonorable.
Say what you want, when you become president of Harvard do as you wish.
Until that time, I'll be congratulating those who graduate HES, as President Lowell envisioned.
RE: New from Harvard Extension School - alexf.1990 - 06-16-2019
(06-16-2019, 10:44 AM)sanantone Wrote:(06-15-2019, 09:54 PM)Jonathan Whatley Wrote:(06-15-2019, 09:27 PM)sanantone Wrote: they don't make their online students wear a scarlet letter.
Pretty sure Harvard Extension School, Bachelor of Liberal Arts, and Master of Liberal Arts aren't scarlet letters.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on that. I wouldn't want to complete a major and have to advertise a general studies degree with a concentration.
The resume guidance allows alumni to list their degree in either of the following formats:
- Bachelor [or Master] of Liberal Arts, Harvard University Extension School.
- Include field of study, minor, and degree honors when applicable.
The intent isn't to give students a scarlet letter; it's to differentiate the Extension School grads from the Graduate School of Arts & Sciences grads. Traditionally, only GSAS grads would list "Harvard University" on their resumes, and everyone else would list the school they associate with (HBS, HKS, HLS, etc.). The problem is that the Extension School grads were being confused with the GSAS grads. Harvard changed the rules to require Extension School grads to state their association with the Extension School explicitly.
I can't imagine there are more than a few thousand HES grads in the whole country. The problem with resumes was probably sparked by internal politics within Harvard more than any deception by HES grads. Another problem I see is that people who have only taken one or two classes at HES will that they attended Harvard University on their LinkedIn. I see the same thing with Harvard Business School Online certificate holders.
RE: New from Harvard Extension School - Jonathan Whatley - 06-16-2019
In 2016 a group of Extension students organized a Degree Change Initiative. Their focus this time wasn’t the names of the school or the liberal arts titles of the degrees, but the suffix that appears on diplomas “in Extension Studies.”
The Dean of HES and the Division of Continuing Education, Hunt Lambert, spoke to a group of students who shared an excerpt to Facebook video.
Quote:“I acknowledge that the names of our degrees are inconsistent with our peers. They’re not terribly descriptive of what the programs actually are.”
“But what I have to deal with inside Harvard is respecting that names are sacred. When we chose ‘Extension Studies’ in the 1909–1910 timeframe we were the Commission on Extension Studies. You have to realize that was eight years before the federal legislation that created the agricultural extensions at the land grant universities… And so they took our name…”
“And then when we were given our degree names, the board, Harvard Corporation as it’s called here, thought very hard. What they said is, ‘We need to be enormously careful in what we call these degrees. Because the Extension School is Harvard, but it’s not Harvard College. The Extension School is Harvard but is not Harvard Business School. The Extension School is Harvard but it’s not Harvard Medical School or Dental or Divinity or Law and go down the list. And each of those schools has unique degree names appropriate to their day. What do we call these degrees? And they made a decision to call it ‘in Extension Studies.’ And… at that time, sacredness was given to those words. And at the level of our Corporation right now, I need to respect that those words are still sacred to them. My predecessor fought for a change in those words for fifteen straight years with no success. And so I have to first go back to the Corporation and say, ‘Why are those words sacred to you? What would it be?’ And we’re working through that. But it’s gonna take time…”
“I’m starting to turn my question around about that and say, maybe we should make ‘in Extension Studies’ mean something. What we can control is to say, this is what it means. It means we extended Harvard to these people. It’s not a substitute. It’s not a replacement. It’s Harvard, but for a different student. ”
“And so we’re gonna look at how we go about changing the names of the degrees, but I’ve also decided we need to look at ‘how do we bring real brand meaning to what our degrees are called?’ Because these words may be sacred at Harvard. And maybe we have to honor those words and don’t get to change the names. In which case it’s incumbent on us in the digital world to bring clearer meaning to what those words mean for the rest of the world.”
“So that’s where I am on the name change.”
RE: New from Harvard Extension School - mednat - 06-16-2019
I'm one class away from completing my ALM, with two grad certs from HES and just recently accepted a new position. Just a couple of things to say on it.
I've had exactly three interviews, with two offers, 2 of them asked specifically about my HES (applicant) status. Specifically they asked me about my education, and I started to talk about undergrad, then my MBA and mentioned I was completing another masters degree. Both specifically asked about the harvard applicant and I discussed a bit about the extension school. Reception was positive, but it could be my distance from Cambridge (i'm in the southeast), or it could be that I downplayed the harvard name by emphasizing my work experience. Difficult to say, but 2/3 from interview to offer (I declined to continue the process with the 3rd due to salary..) has not been common at my level (Director) previously. Previously I've also never been asked about education (its at the bottom of my resume), now it comes up almost every time I speak with a recruiter/interview.
This discussion has been rehashed a number of times and everyone seems to have an opinion. Here's mine after completing 12 classes:
- It was worth every penny for the quality of education I received. My professors were leaders in their field and they pushed me to learn.
- I'm a nerd, but the library access is phenomenal and a huge benefit I hadn't considered previously.
- The Harvard brand may be diluted by the extension label, but I haven't seen it and don't care. I'm not competing for top level investment banker gigs and don't need that level of recognition.
- It was expensive, but I've taken extra classes that don't go towards my credential because the tuition in relation to the value is cheap
RE: New from Harvard Extension School - sanantone - 06-16-2019
(06-16-2019, 11:16 AM)armstrongsubero Wrote: I think it just burns some people that the Ivory Tower, Ivy League Harvard whose existence we must all quiver at, whose students are the children of the mytical Greek Gods allows simple ordinary mortals to attend.
It's just a bloody school.
Some guy out there makes 500 million a year and his son goes to Harvard, I may be just as smart or smater thean him and cant go why? Because of money? Because I dont have connection? Because I wasn't born in the US?
Its education at it's finest. Prove you are worthy to study there and hey, welcome to the family.
That is the basis of the HES. President Lowell had more vision than any people bashing the school can fathom, and the people talking down about the school can't walk in this man's shoe.
The guy has more accomplishemnts to his name than many of us ever hope to achieve in his lifetime. When you did as much as he did, then you can bash his vision. An American hero whom you all should be proud that he had such vision. I salute you sir.
When you bash the HES, you bash the vision of your forefathers. I may not be an American, but in my country we call that being the Hindi word 'neemakaram' , and is dishonorable.
Say what you want, when you become president of Harvard do as you wish.
Until that time, I'll be congratulating those who graduate HES, as President Lowell envisioned.
LOL. President Lowell went to Harvard College and Harvard Law, not a school of professional studies. Harvard Extension, under him, was created to only award associate of art degrees, and students complained because they weren't earning bachelor's degrees like everyone else. When other schools started offering two-year degrees called "associate of arts," he believed the AA degree name had become defiled.
1. He did not want Extension students to earn the same degree as other Harvard students.
2. He thought other schools offering the AA degree defiled the name because these schools weren't on Harvard's level.
He was the definition of "uppity."
Are you saying that because Jeff Bezos is one of the wealthiest men in the world that his vision for the Amazon warehouse is good for his warehouse employees? Jeff Bezos certainly is smart, but it does not mean that he has everyone's best interest in mind. If President Lowell actually cared about potential applicants who weren't wealthy, he would have gotten rid of legacy, children of employees, and wealthy donor admissions creating a truly equal admissions process instead of segregating poorer students into an extension school.