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+--- Thread: The Fall of the Ivory Tower (/Thread-The-Fall-of-the-Ivory-Tower)
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RE: The Fall of the Ivory Tower - ss20ts - 01-21-2021
(01-20-2021, 08:20 PM)LongRoad Wrote: One of my pet peeves is the cost of text books, especially for Gen. Ed. courses. When I started at a B&M decades ago, your only option was to buy from the school bookstore, or luck out and buy from someone who'd taken the course. Next came the Internet. Yay! With just the ISBN, you could buy a textbook from anywhere!
Now, colleges have businesses create digital books for them, and they cannot be used for other schools. And don't buy a used one 'cause it may not have the "vital" lab access. Or a new edition comes out every few years. All of this is NOT for cutting edge classes, I'm talking about courses like Microeconomics. It seems like many of the PowerPoint presentation, quizzes, etc. are devised by these companies. What ARE the professor's doing/creating to add value to the course?
Why aren't more colleges using sites like OpenStax?
Absolutely! A thousand percent. I was hit hard by sticker shock when I went to CSU Global. One courses had a $150 video game which we had to purchase for the class. You got to run through it ONCE. You couldn't play the game over or start over if you started off the wrong way because you misunderstood the poor directions. In another class, I got to use a FREE Harvard simulator that I could do over and over and over until the end of the term.
At UMPI, there are no outside textbooks. ALL of the reading material is included in the online learning platform which is AWESOME. It's saved me hundreds. Most course content hasn't changed much at any school. Some topics won't have updates for years - if ever. It's not like we're taking History of the 2000's. Your books shouldn't cost as much as your tuition. Yes, I had that happen at community college.
(01-21-2021, 10:34 AM)tallpilot Wrote: This is the reality. As long as people are willing to take out astronomically large loans and pay ridiculously inflated tuition, nothing will change. When a critical mass finally says, ‘enough’ and refuses to play the game then colleges will adapt. Hopefully the programs elucidated here will help people see alternative paths.
Curiously the author ignores the special status of student loans in bankruptcy in his theory of high costs. He also intimates that college students are making choices based on perceived safety as opposed to economics. I’m not sure I can agree with that.
Student loans from the federal government aren't eligible for bankruptcy. The only way to escape them is to die. Literally.
RE: The Fall of the Ivory Tower - dfrecore - 01-21-2021
(01-20-2021, 08:20 PM)LongRoad Wrote: One of my pet peeves is the cost of text books, especially for Gen. Ed. courses. When I started at a B&M decades ago, your only option was to buy from the school bookstore, or luck out and buy from someone who'd taken the course. Next came the Internet. Yay! With just the ISBN, you could buy a textbook from anywhere!
Now, colleges have businesses create digital books for them, and they cannot be used for other schools. And don't buy a used one 'cause it may not have the "vital" lab access. Or a new edition comes out every few years. All of this is NOT for cutting edge classes, I'm talking about courses like Microeconomics. It seems like many of the PowerPoint presentation, quizzes, etc. are devised by these companies. What ARE the professor's doing/creating to add value to the course?
Why aren't more colleges using sites like OpenStax?
100% agreed. I had a course once where it was $155 to take at my CC, but $175 for the book. Ummm...are you insane!?!
RE: The Fall of the Ivory Tower - rachel83az - 01-21-2021
(01-21-2021, 03:58 PM)dfrecore Wrote: 100% agreed. I had a course once where it was $155 to take at my CC, but $175 for the book. Ummm...are you insane!?!
No surprise that book piracy is a huge thing in academic circles... I'm definitely not saying that it's right to pirate books but I can see why people do.
RE: The Fall of the Ivory Tower - Alpha - 01-22-2021
One thing that could potentially happen is that the new Presidential administration could push through some type of student loan forgiveness legislation. I know that some people don't like this idea but it has been discussed by multiple candidates during the election process.
RE: The Fall of the Ivory Tower - dfrecore - 01-22-2021
(01-22-2021, 12:28 PM)Alpha Wrote: One thing that could potentially happen is that the new Presidential administration could push through some type of student loan forgiveness legislation. I know that some people don't like this idea but it has been discussed by multiple candidates during the election process.
Which does exactly nothing to reform the costs - and may actually make it worse going forward (since everyone - schools and students - will expect it to happen again in the future). It's a terrible idea.
RE: The Fall of the Ivory Tower - monchevy - 01-22-2021
Free textbook access and other learning materials at APUS, too. Textbook prices are ridiculous. There's no real justification for them. I was looking at a CC class recently that was charging $150 for the textbook. Written by the instructor. In 2008. And the class was about digital communications.
RE: The Fall of the Ivory Tower - ReyMysterioso - 01-22-2021
Higher education is a scammy racket. "I know the game is rigged, but it's the only game in town."
RE: The Fall of the Ivory Tower - Alpha - 01-23-2021
(01-22-2021, 12:35 PM)dfrecore Wrote:(01-22-2021, 12:28 PM)Alpha Wrote: One thing that could potentially happen is that the new Presidential administration could push through some type of student loan forgiveness legislation. I know that some people don't like this idea but it has been discussed by multiple candidates during the election process.
Which does exactly nothing to reform the costs - and may actually make it worse going forward (since everyone - schools and students - will expect it to happen again in the future). It's a terrible idea.
I'm not certain that the primary purpose is to reform the costs. I think the purpose is to help the people who carry the debt. To me it seems to be a complicated problem and no single action will solve it. I believe that any loan forgiveness program is primarily intended to lift the financial burden from the students/graduates. Reforming the costs of higher education will require a more far reaching reform of the student loan process as well as the higher education institutions themselves.