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+--- Forum: [ARCHIVE] Excelsior, Thomas Edison, and Charter Oak Specific Discussion (https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Forum-ARCHIVE-Excelsior-Thomas-Edison-and-Charter-Oak-Specific-Discussion)
+--- Thread: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior (/Thread-Charter-Oak-struggles-as-well-not-just-Excelsior)
RE: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior - Old Guy - 05-22-2018
From 1971 to 1998 The Board of Regent's operated Regent's College as an integral part of the University of the State of New York (New York's Higher Education Department.) There was no need to offer courses because the University of the State of New York had 250 colleges and universities under its umbrella providing courses. In 1998 it was renamed Excelsior College and given its own board of directors. Instead of specializing with its unique mandate, it decided it wanted to be the 251st mediocre school.
RE: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior - dfrecore - 05-22-2018
(05-22-2018, 03:22 PM)Old Guy Wrote: From 1971 to 1998 The Board of Regent's operated Regent's College as an integral part of the University of the State of New York (New York's Higher Education Department.) There was no need to offer courses because the University of the State of New York had 250 colleges and universities under its umbrella providing courses. In 1998 it was renamed Excelsior College and given its own board of directors. Instead of specializing with its unique mandate, it decided it wanted to be the 251st mediocre school.
Without the support of the other schools, it was on it's own. It had to start making money. There's no telling if it was a money-maker in it's former incarnation.
RE: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior - miah - 06-17-2018
(05-22-2018, 03:26 PM)dfrecore Wrote:(05-22-2018, 03:22 PM)Old Guy Wrote: From 1971 to 1998 The Board of Regent's operated Regent's College as an integral part of the University of the State of New York (New York's Higher Education Department.) There was no need to offer courses because the University of the State of New York had 250 colleges and universities under its umbrella providing courses. In 1998 it was renamed Excelsior College and given its own board of directors. Instead of specializing with its unique mandate, it decided it wanted to be the 251st mediocre school.
Without the support of the other schools, it was on it's own. It had to start making money. There's no telling if it was a money-maker in it's former incarnation.
It was one of the 2 public distance learning colleges in NYS and was the primary DL college for nurses that wanted to get their RN bachelor degree without attending F2F classes; the other NYS DL college was Empire State College, which is still in existence and also offers Nursing degrees too (bachelor and masters) and Empire State's tuition is less than Excelsior's (although when you start adding in fees it might be getting closer to the Excelsior rates, although my guess is that ESC courses will still come in under EC's overall price.
RE: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior - Life Long Learning - 06-17-2018
Last year I read all three of the Big 3 annual financial reports over a few years. What I read was this.
COSC a small college has always been dependent on tax money and is not making a profit. It will remain a CT state-dependent college.
TESU was the most diverse. TESU could be a non-profit. It makes 16% annual profit above its tiny money from NJ taxes (1-3%) of revenue. TESU does not need tax money. Non-profit does not mean no-profit. TESU does every year. A good position I think.
The best position of the Big 3 as of 2018.Excelsior College became too dependent on the nursing program (50%). Think the "Walmart effect." Most of their model was working except getting too dependent on one area. They were making record profits. Excelsior was growing too fast with over 160,000 alumni+. They were making money or were breaking on the 40% military and 10% others. It will help even more as they streamline all the majors. My Homeland Security and Emergency Management (HSEM) degree had to have a concentration from 4-5 listed (crazy) and I will not list mine. The name is already long as a degree and it says enough. They just got rid of this issue to streamline the degree last month. They need to get back to its roots (a true assessment college) and use the KISS principle (which they do seem to be slowly applying).
RE: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior - miah - 06-17-2018
(06-17-2018, 08:29 PM)miah Wrote:(05-22-2018, 03:26 PM)dfrecore Wrote:(05-22-2018, 03:22 PM)Old Guy Wrote: From 1971 to 1998 The Board of Regent's operated Regent's College as an integral part of the University of the State of New York (New York's Higher Education Department.) There was no need to offer courses because the University of the State of New York had 250 colleges and universities under its umbrella providing courses. In 1998 it was renamed Excelsior College and given its own board of directors. Instead of specializing with its unique mandate, it decided it wanted to be the 251st mediocre school.
Without the support of the other schools, it was on it's own. It had to start making money. There's no telling if it was a money-maker in it's former incarnation.
It was one of the 2 public distance learning colleges in NYS and was the primary DL college for nurses that wanted to get their RN bachelor degree without attending F2F classes; the other NYS DL college was Empire State College, which is still in existence and also offers Nursing degrees too (bachelor and masters) and Empire State's tuition is less than Excelsior's (although when you start adding in fees it might be getting closer to the Excelsior rates, although my guess is that ESC courses will still come in under EC's overall price.
Yes, the other large part of EC's DL student population was military.
Apparently nothing has really changed as to where EC draws their largest numbers of students.
RE: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior - sanantone - 06-17-2018
I'm wondering if the assessment model will work anymore. We know that most Big 3 students take at least a few classes with the schools and transfer in mostly traditional college courses. The people who like "testing out" of most of their credits are drawn to this forum and others. When I joined this forum about seven years ago, everyone was testing out. Now, people seem test-averse and are depending mostly on ACE and NCCRS-approved courses. If Excelsior went back to the assessment model, how much could they possibly make off of Uexcels?
RE: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior - miah - 06-17-2018
(06-17-2018, 09:17 PM)sanantone Wrote: I'm wondering if the assessment model will work anymore. We know that most Big 3 students take at least a few classes with the schools and transfer in mostly traditional college courses. The people who like "testing out" of most of their credits are drawn to this forum and others. When I joined this forum about seven years ago, everyone was testing out. Now, people seem test-averse and are depending mostly on ACE and NCCRS-approved courses. If Excelsior went back to the assessment model, how much could they possibly make off of Uexcels?
I'm not sure I understand what you are referring to when you note "the assessment model."
I think what is needed is a whole new model from what is traditional.
For instance, I'd love to take courses from wherever and be able to pull them together somewhere and have somebody grant a degree.
Plus for everyone that likes the test out model, you'll find others that prefer online or f2f traditional or hybrid courses.
And then you have students that took courses and dropped out for whatever reason and would love to go back and complete their degree if they could find a way they could afford it and devote the time to it.
I thought that is what EC and by extension, TESU and COSC possibly were doing as well, but it doesn't seem to necessarily be so from my early observations relating to my FAYA's most recent conversations with EC. ie- They are not bringing in credits that SUNY transferred in nor will they accept D's for elective courses even if the overall average was well over 2.0 GPA. Plus all of the course were traditional RA courses.
But I definitely agree that we need a different model now relating to higher education in the 21st Century!
RE: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior - sanantone - 06-17-2018
(06-17-2018, 09:34 PM)miah Wrote:(06-17-2018, 09:17 PM)sanantone Wrote: I'm wondering if the assessment model will work anymore. We know that most Big 3 students take at least a few classes with the schools and transfer in mostly traditional college courses. The people who like "testing out" of most of their credits are drawn to this forum and others. When I joined this forum about seven years ago, everyone was testing out. Now, people seem test-averse and are depending mostly on ACE and NCCRS-approved courses. If Excelsior went back to the assessment model, how much could they possibly make off of Uexcels?
I'm not sure I understand what you are referring to when you note "the assessment model."
I think what is needed is a whole new model from what is traditional.
For instance, I'd love to take courses from wherever and be able to pull them together somewhere and have somebody grant a degree.
Plus for everyone that likes the test out model, you'll find others that prefer online or f2f traditional or hybrid courses.
And then you have students that took courses and dropped out for whatever reason and would love to go back and complete their degree if they could find a way they could afford it and devote the time to it.
I thought that is what EC and by extension, TESU and COSC possibly were doing as well, but it doesn't seem to necessarily be so from my early observations relating to my FAYA's most recent conversations with EC. ie- They are not bringing in credits that SUNY transferred in nor will they accept D's for elective courses even if the overall average was well over 2.0 GPA. Plus all of the course were traditional RA courses.
But I definitely agree that we need a different model now relating to higher education in the 21st Century!
When Life Long Learning talks about the assessment model, he's talking about a time when Excelsior focused on offering Excelsior College Exams (formerly known by different names and now known as Uexcels). The Big 3 had far fewer course options in the past. Most students completed their degrees with previous college credits, PLAs, CLEP, DSST, and military credits. Excelsior had a larger selection of CBEs (credit-by-exam).
I'm different from most here. I'd much rather have a larger selection of Uexcels, TECEPs, CSU Global CBEs, Davar exams, Saylor exams, CLEPs, and DSSTs. Ohio University used to also offer a good selection of CBEs. I'm not too fond of Straighterline, Shmoop, Study.com, etc.
RE: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior - Life Long Learning - 06-17-2018
sanantone
Assessment Colleges go back (1971-87) before UExcels exams. Read some of the older Dr. Bears Guides on the Big 3 he loved them. UExcels exams came later. The Big 3 were all "Assessment Colleges." 100% credits were transferred in. None of the Big 3 had courses or exams. Generally, 100% of credits came from B&M colleges. These students just paid an annual fee and transferred credits in. The Big 3 helped make a legit RA degree for adults who fell through the cracks like military students who moved often before the internet. [/size][/b][/size]
RE: Charter Oak struggles as well, not just Excelsior - sanantone - 06-17-2018
(06-17-2018, 09:54 PM)Life Long Learning Wrote: sanantone
Assessment Colleges go back (1971-87) before UExcels exams. Read some of the older Dr. Bears Guides on the Big 3 he loved them. UExcels exams came later. The Big 3 were all "Assessment Colleges." 100% credits were transferred in. None of the Big 3 had courses or exams. Generally, 100% of credits came from B&M colleges. These students just paid an annual fee and transferred credits in. The Big 3 helped make a legit RA degree for adults who fell through the cracks like military students who moved often before the internet. [/size][/b][/size]
You mean that no one took CLEP back then? CLEP has been around since 1968. I think TESU (formerly TESC) started offering online courses in the 1980s. They probably didn't have a lot of students, though. Did the Big 3 ever offer correspondence courses? Those have been around forever. Penn Foster is over 100 years old.