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+--- Thread: How early to start working on college credits? (/Thread-How-early-to-start-working-on-college-credits)
How early to start working on college credits? - TrailRunr - 01-01-2017
I would highly discourage anything other than AP and courses at the community college. Even CLEP is risky, but far less risky than ACE. I certainly would not spend money on SL, study.com, shmoop, saylor, etc. because they will be worthless if the child wants to go traditional. If the student is insistent on going to the big-3 or WGU, then my answer above doesn't apply. Nontrad is better for those who are already working. I'm not sold on nontrad being ideal for teens.
For AP and community college, start them early as long as they want to do it and are able to do it. 10th grade would be great if it is possible.
How early to start working on college credits? - AJ_Atlanta - 01-01-2017
clep3705 Wrote:A high schooler who does well in school should take CLEP U.S. History 1 and 2 as soon as those high school history courses are finished. Take the exams while the material is fresh. The reality is that academic core courses or general education courses or whatever you want to call them are not the courses you want to take in college. They are mostly weed out courses. Not taking these courses in college isn't missing out on anything.
Actually I think a HS should take the CELP general test at the end of school, they are so broad it's not something you can study for 10-20 years later
TrailRunr Wrote:I would highly discourage anything other than AP and courses at the community college. Even CLEP is risky, but far less risky than ACE. I certainly would not spend money on SL, study.com, shmoop, saylor, etc. because they will be worthless if the child wants to go traditional. If the student is insistent on going to the big-3 or WGU, then my answer above doesn't apply. Nontrad is better for those who are already working. I'm not sold on nontrad being ideal for teens.
For AP and community college, start them early as long as they want to do it and are able to do it. 10th grade would be great if it is possible.
I think every traditional school I have ever looked at accepts CLEPs for incoming students, limited usually to 12-18 credits worth but still widely accepted. Granted if your school has an AP program or a dual enrollment you should take advantage of it.
How early to start working on college credits? - dfrecore - 01-01-2017
AJ_Atlanta Wrote:Actually I think a HS should take the CELP general test at the end of school, they are so broad it's not something you can study for 10-20 years later
I think every traditional school I have ever looked at accepts CLEPs for incoming students, limited usually to 12-18 credits worth but still widely accepted. Granted if your school has an AP program or a dual enrollment you should take advantage of it.
SOME of the traditional schools around here accept CLEP, but many do not. The UC system doesn't at all. Many of the better private colleges around here don't either.
For teens, I'm always going to recommend AP exams (even if you don't take the AP classes, you can still take the AP exam), and CC courses with dual enrollment. To spend money on things that won't transfer is a waste of money (to me). I personally wouldn't have my teen take any SL/Study.com/ACE-recommended courses at all, until they knew with 100% certainty that they weren't going to go the traditional route (either straight to 4-yr college, or CC-to-4-yr-college).
How early to start working on college credits? - clep3705 - 01-01-2017
jsd Wrote:Not all schools accept a block transfer of an associates for general ed courses like WGU does. I'd guess MOST schools don't. Heck, even TESU doesn't (unless the AA is from within the NJ state school system, I believe). So even if you get an ACE-style AA and then go to a traditional school for a BA, if that BA school doesn't accept ACE, you'll be repeating much of your AA over again as traditional courses. It's still a gamble. AP/CLEP are a little different though, since AP is pretty much accepted everywhere, and CLEP isn't too far behind.
Actually there is at least one exception to getting ACE accepted by a school that doesn't accept ACE. In the state of Texas, if you obtain an associate's degree from a public funded community college and transfer to a state funded baccalaureate institution, your core courses will transfer. Your core including any from ACE will by law transfer to the state university even if the state university doesn't accept ACE credits. It's not because of the associate's degree per se. Anyone who graduates from a Texas community college with an A.A. or A.S. is by definition core complete. By law, once core complete, always core complete in a transfer situation. You can be core complete without having an A.A. or A.S.
There may be similar rules in other states.
How early to start working on college credits? - dfrecore - 01-01-2017
clep3705 Wrote:Actually there is at least one exception to getting ACE accepted by a school that doesn't accept ACE. In the state of Texas, if you obtain an associate's degree from a public funded community college and transfer to a state funded baccalaureate institution, your core courses will transfer. Your core including any from ACE will by law transfer to the state university even if the state university doesn't accept ACE credits. It's not because of the associate's degree per se. Anyone who graduates from a Texas community college with an A.A. or A.S. is by definition core complete. By law, once core complete, always core complete in a transfer situation. You can be core complete without having an A.A. or A.S.
There may be similar rules in other states.
That's a good deal. CA does not have that rule. If you want to transfer in-state from a CC to a 4-yr public college, you have to use that college's rules to get your AA/AS, or Gen Ed's out of the way. So, if you want to transfer to a CSU, you have to use the CSU-transfer guidelines to get your credits accepted. You have to look at what each CSU accepts in the way of CLEP and/or DSST. If you want to transfer to a UC, then they have separate guidelines, and no CLEP or DSST will be accepted at all. Each school also has a specific database for the different colleges, so you have to plug in the classes you're taking to see if they transfer from one school to another, and how they will be accepted.
It's not as lenient as the TX rules, but at least they have the database so you can make sure that your credits will transfer, and they're very clear on what will be accepted and how ahead of time, so there's no wasted classes.
The one advantage of going to a CC and transferring to a 4-yr CSU or UC - they have guaranteed acceptance, if you meet their requirements (for GPA, number of credits, etc.). That's a definite benefit for CC grads, with the terrible acceptance percentages for in-state freshman we have.
How early to start working on college credits? - AJ_Atlanta - 01-01-2017
clep3705 Wrote:Actually there is at least one exception to getting ACE accepted by a school that doesn't accept ACE. In the state of Texas, if you obtain an associate's degree from a public funded community college and transfer to a state funded baccalaureate institution, your core courses will transfer. Your core including any from ACE will by law transfer to the state university even if the state university doesn't accept ACE credits. It's not because of the associate's degree per se. Anyone who graduates from a Texas community college with an A.A. or A.S. is by definition core complete. By law, once core complete, always core complete in a transfer situation. You can be core complete without having an A.A. or A.S.
There may be similar rules in other states.
Nice and that is how it should be - but the transfer game is usually a great source of income for most schools and in the end that is what matters to them. Sorry but I really don't see any less greed between for-profits and not-for. If there was wouldn't we have seen a difference in the astronomical rise in tuition rates over the past few decades.
But I digress, back to age to start
How early to start working on college credits? - cookderosa - 01-01-2017
The age isn't an issue, really, unless they are under 13. If they are, then you'll need to consider an additional step of completing a waiver that allows them to participate.
The primary generic readiness issue is reading level. CLEP and other college level exams are written for those capable of understanding 100 and 200 level college textbooks. For a student reading on grade level, they may understand the content well enough but be overwhelmed by the complexity of language used during an exam. So, the short answer, is that they should be reading at LEAST at the 11th or 12th grade level by any measure. I have a friend whose 9 year old passed a CLEP exam. She is exceptional obviously. I know ADULTS in real life who do not read at that level, so again, it's not necessarily a question of age the number.
In my opinion, readiness is harder to consider when you're talking about minors. Adults are an entirely different story - when should adults have started CLEP? Yesterday.
When should teens/children start CLEP? Ehhh.... there are a lot of variables.
I do differ in my enthusiasm for adults taking CLEP exams than teens, and I'm super-pro-CLEP. The caution I have for teens is that the PARENT can get off track. For one, adults have already graduated from high school. They did homework, and writing, and critical thinking, and all of the skills that take TIME to nurture. CLEPping out of college in high school fast forwards a teen through high school and gen eds of college. While I'm sure there are teens that are fine, if they opted to attend traditional college on campus <gasp> they could go from 10th grader to college junior in 1 year. That brings in more issues than we can cover here. But honestly, this is a parent-planning issue.
Some pitfalls would include being overly enthusiastic in degree planning for a kid that hasn't even got pimples yet, or over-investing in a certain degree / major / college *just because* you've knocked out some CLEP. That's really not a good reason to pick a college, mainly I'm of the opinion that the homeschooling parent should plan the diploma and the teenager should plan their degree (or apprenticeship, or military, or gap year, or internship, or certificate, or whatever THEY want to pursue).
I think it's a shame when a parent signs Timmy up for TESU's distance learning degree in business *just because* it's low hanging fruit. It deprives the teen of a big stage in their maturity in my opinion <grin> which is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Edit to add: so when to take a CLEP? When it fits in with their study. Did they study US History? Good, there are CLEPs for that. If you're asking "what college will accept my 9th grader's CLEP?" or "how will I know that their CLEP exam will be accepted?" then you're already down the rabbit hole. No one asks that about AP exams - so I'm of the opinion that AP and CLEP should be regarded with the same model. Teach a course, do exam prep, take an exam. Repeat. Later, apply for college and see what happens. There are a dozen reasons someone would choose CLEP over AP, the least of which is that they are accepted at 3200 schools vs 2900. AP is now Common Core aligned, all require writing, they are offered only 1/year, more expensive than CLEP, you have to take them at a high school, many high schools treat homeschoolers who want to take AP like crap, AP doesn't have College Algebra and a handful of other subjects, AP scores are not confidential, etc...........
How early to start working on college credits? - AJ_Atlanta - 01-02-2017
cookderosa Wrote:The age isn't an issue, really, unless they are under 13. If they are, then you'll need to consider an additional step of completing a waiver that allows them to participate.
The primary generic readiness issue is reading level. CLEP and other college level exams are written for those capable of understanding 100 and 200 level college textbooks. For a student reading on grade level, they may understand the content well enough but be overwhelmed by the complexity of language used during an exam. So, the short answer, is that they should be reading at LEAST at the 11th or 12th grade level by any measure. I have a friend whose 9 year old passed a CLEP exam. She is exceptional obviously. I know ADULTS in real life who do not read at that level, so again, it's not necessarily a question of age the number.
Thank you, and I am beginning to agree with you. My initial thoughts were a teen should start near the end of their senior year, but I think that some may be fine starting in their Junior year. As you said, it really depends - but after graduation feels a little too late to me
How early to start working on college credits? - topdog98 - 01-02-2017
AJ_Atlanta Wrote:But I digress, back to age to start
I don't think there is one answer to this. I started at 14, but I was highly motivated once I heard that I could get college credit while in high school.
Ask him what he wants. Then let him take at least some CLEP exams. See where he wants to take it from there.
Don't worry, if he is on board, it will not ruin his life if he takes some CLEP exams.
How early to start working on college credits? - TrailRunr - 01-02-2017
dfrecore Wrote:SOME of the traditional schools around here accept CLEP, but many do not. The UC system doesn't at all. Many of the better private colleges around here don't either.
For teens, I'm always going to recommend AP exams (even if you don't take the AP classes, you can still take the AP exam), and CC courses with dual enrollment. To spend money on things that won't transfer is a waste of money (to me). I personally wouldn't have my teen take any SL/Study.com/ACE-recommended courses at all, until they knew with 100% certainty that they weren't going to go the traditional route (either straight to 4-yr college, or CC-to-4-yr-college).
100% agree.
For teens in California, AP is a safer route than CLEP. Way too many places don't take CLEP here as mentioned above. The second-tier California State University system is hit or miss on CLEP such as limiting the exams that count. Even some community colleges won't take CLEP. The IGETC (California's standardized GE transfer curriculum) cannot be certified with CLEP. Don't even think about trying DSST with most traditional schools here.
What happens if the teen is talented and gets admitted to the better schools or the better state university systems? Chances are pretty good that the CLEP credits will be diluted or completely worthless. Don't lock the teen out of the better schools just because all of the credits are CLEP or worse.
The strategy I took personally was to take the minimum number of classes at the high school to graduate and then dual enroll at community college. For example, once I took the minimum number of science classes to graduate from high school, I took the remaining science classes at the CC. I did not bother trying to transfer the courses back to high school. If there was an AP class at my high school that I wanted, I took it. I didn't realize at the time I could self-study AP.
Although I disagree with cookderosa on AP vs. CLEP, I agree that going to an online school (regardless of trad or nontrad) robs the teen of the opportunity to mature on-campus. I also agree about the dangers of mass CLEPing the courses outside of GEs. Some of the CLEPs are too easy. For example, A&I Lit can be taken cold so it's pretty useless as preparation for a traditional school's English Literature major which requires their own lower level courses which are likely to be much more rigorous.